aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

Er...yes, nagynolonger that would be it. ILS is on the money here. Teachers really can't make it uncomfortable enough, unless they go all out.

And before you ask, yes, I've done it.

They wont strike nagynolonger. Sooner or later the penny will drop. Already tide is turning amongst the public against the dim-witted unions. I just wish we had a stronger leader who would properly sort the unions out proper insead our current fuck-faced idiot.

mdowdall oh, yes they will.:o

The teachers' pension was audited and found to be sound. It can provide for its members. The present government attack it for their own agenda.

And, Ticktockpillow - no money for wars, Trident, the Falklands?

"Pensions are just like bank accounts/ savings. Seriously if anyones bank refused them the money paid in they'd go mad."

Haven't been around since yesterday but just wanted to pick up on this statement because it is so wrong. Pensions are nothing like savings. They are an insurance. Car insurance is insures against you having an accident. The probability of you having an accident is worked out and your premiums are calculated according to the risk factors involved. Pensions are the same - they work out the likelihood of people reaching a certain age. In both cases if the conditions are not met, no payout comes out of it. You can pay in £'000s to your pension pot (or for your car insurance) but if you don't reach retirement age or you drop dead within a few weeks of retiring, you don't get that pension pot of money back same as you don't get your insurance premiums back if you don't claim on your car insurance.

That is why pensions are having to be recalculated and the conditions are changing - the calculation of the pot required to meet the pensions of those who do start claiming has changed because people are living longer, investments are earning what they were etc. The private sector worked that out years ago and have made their adjustments. It is about time the public sector does the same. It is tough for teachers but it is tough for everybody - teachers aren't a special category that should be immune to what is happening just because they are teachers and they teach our children. It is an important job but so are lots of other jobs.

echt - the teachers' pension fund may be sound - but taxpayers are funding 2/3 of it ! Teachers currently pay in less than 7% , the "employer" funds 14.1% - I see where the costs to the public purse may be coming from......

I don't understand this antagonism to retiring late. All my family are in education. All intend to work as long as they can. What else are you going to do with your time?? Being around young people keeps you young.

Yes, I know it's hard work. I know about marking and reports. But I also know about a fulfilled day and feeling like an active member of society. I LOVE it when my kids have older teachers, especially as they seem to be the only ones who can spell these days. They have a wisdom and perspective on life which transmits in the classroom.

I used to work in pensions and you know what happens after early retirement in SO many cases that they have special counselling for it...? Depression.

Pensions were devised to keep people going for the few years after they finished work, not for potentially a third of their lives. If you want to do that and live a life of leisure for years and years you have to be rich enough to fund it yourself.

As a woman I also feel ashamed of my sex for belly-aching over a higher retirement age. We live LONGER than men. Whoever thinks that our kids should pay for us to sit around for 20/30 years doing nothing seems totally unreasonable to me.

And yes, it is our kids paying, the teachers' pensions scheme is unfunded.

Adjustments were made to the public sector pensions yers ago, and even the most strident union official agrees there has to be some changes to the pension schemes(s).

The fact the goal posts are being moved after the game has startd (30 years after in my case) is annoiying but is accepted (through gritted teeth), the objection is that public servants are being told they must:

Pay more
For longer and
Get less

I would rather pay more now and get the same, others may wish to pay the same and work a little longer but all three, in an imposed settlement? NO

The government have been asked to provide assurances that the money saved will backfill any shortfall in the new "slimmer" pension schemes so they are self supporting and we won't find ourselves in the same situation in 15 years time when the next recession is due and we are living even longer. They won't.

I see the Daily Mail are shocked that people may have to queue a little longer at Immigration tomorrow. Diddums...Immigration and Customs officers like policemen and nurses work nights throughout their career. Studies show that on average this will shorten their life span by approx 10 years.

That makes DPs expected life span 69 years. 22 years in the army and then 24 doing shift work in the civil service to get three years pension, and they want him to pay more and get less for it? He'll already be dead by the time I get to retire after 48 years of public service , so by the time I get to retire I will already be a widow, but luckily I will only have 5 years of retirement to worry about it. (my expected age of death is 71).

Selfish and greedy? No, scapegoated andd hung out to dry.

bytheway teachers are taxpayers, too.

What Takeresponsiblity said.

Takeresponsibility - if you want to talk about your indvidual circumstances to try press your case, let me tell you about a couple of good friends of mine. One has been made redundant twice in the past three years and is presently looking for work. He has been a manual worker all his life - with all the instability that brings - and his pension pot, he tells me, 'has next to nothing in it.' Another friend, who worked as a manager in the logistics sector, lost his job 8 months ago and may well end up being reposessed this year unless he can find something in the next 3 months. He has paid into three different pension schemes over the years and all have had expectations dramatically revised downwards.
So, Takeresponsibility, a piece of advice: count your blessings.

Teachers have no idea what instability is like or how stressful. I speak as someone in an unstable, unpredictable career who is having to fund her own pension - surrounded by a family of teachers. I love them to bits :) but they have NO IDEA what it is like to genuinely not know if you will have a job next year.

They have given enough notice, surely most employees can take a days paid leave to cover this.

I don't think the strike is going to make any difference. After what they have done and got away with wrt students/young people, they will do what they hell they want.

We have all been told to work longer and my pension, even though I've worked hard, will be a pittance compared to public sector. I won't be getting a top of from taxes. Also when I started working as a young 18 yr old woman we were also promised our pensions at 60!

Good luck with it anyway.

Count your blessings, Mdowdall. What a pile of twaddle.

Teachers entered into a contract. Do this for that. And now the goalposts are being moved.

Why should teachers be grateful because they're not (currently) being shat on at quite same rate as some others? Oooh, let's all be in in the same crap position. Or is that what is meant by Cameron or was it Clegg, saying "we're all in this together?

DH is on a yearly contract. He has been now for 3 years. I think that is fairly unstable isn't it? His contract renewal depends on the same things as my continuning job in the private sector - demand and cash flow. Difference being that if my job isn't 'renewed' I get redundancy. If his contract isn't renewed he gets nothing.

I'm sure they can take a days leave and maybe they won't mind if it's a nice sunny day. A day off is a day off. But most people will have to take it out of their 4 weeks annual leave. A couple will have a total of 8 weeks but should they really have to use it up for striking teachers? Come the new term and more days off they will get mightyly p**d off.

How many times do you and everybody else need telling echt that lots of people in other sectors also entered into "contracts" where pensions are concerned? Of all my friends in the private sector I can't think of one who hasnt had some kind of issue going on where pensions are concerned in recent years.
As for counting your blessings, yes I think it is approrpriate sentiment. The teacher's 'problems' are fuck all compared to what a lot of people are facing right now. Their decision to strike is crass to say the least.

Also worth noting *echt" that teachers entered into a contract that we - ie the mugs in the private sector that are paying for the bastard thing - WERE NOT PARTY TO.

So what? Teachers have the muscle, and for once, are using it.

Are they to roll over just because others are in the mire? I think not.

Teachers "problems" are "fuck all" compared to starving in Africa, but you know what, that's not where they are. Do try and come up with a better argument than that one, please.

There are better arguments all over this thread echt. Sadly you choose to ignore them.

Right. I have made the decision to not strike and also to pull out of the pension scheme. Thats £145 a month I can do something better with tbh

There is no chance of the teachers winning this. I have read other threads where teachers state they can earn mega bucks in the private sector. I'm sure some could but it would involve some trade off. Like missing outon 26th Dec so they could be up bright eyed and bushy tailed for work on the morning of 27th. And of course if you want time off in july and august it comes out of your 4 weeks. DH had to work the whole of DC school holidays for years on end so we never had a family holiday. And we didn't take them in term time because we wanted them to understand the importance of schooling.

The idea that teachers could simply move to the private sector and earn better money is, frankly, the most ill-informed, naive, dim-witted argument I have read in all of this.

You are right mdowdall. Also I don't really get the all teachers are post grads thing either. A PCGE converts a maths, french, science english degree into a teaching qualification.......fair enough! But it also converts a dance/drama/art/sport etc into a teaching qualification. No where other than in teaching would these degrees = well paid secure jobs.

Going back a bit...

Noblegirrafe. A Robin Hood tax would bring in more cash to pay off the debt. I can never understand why Labour didn't tax second homes......apart from the fact most MPs have at least 2!

Nobody needs 2 homes.......a static at the coast maybe but not a proper house. Although I will admit to a couple of cheap hols in friends holiday cottages

I would tell what jobs friends did to afford second homes, but I've lost my hard hat.