AIBU to be pleased that Serena and Venus are both out?

[grovel]

I was getting bored with their dominance.

I think the racism is self evident It may be evident to you creighton but it certainly isn't to me.

You seem to have a beef about the 'tennis establishment' and I agree with many of the points you have made, but the m/netters on this thread aren't (as far as I know) movers and shakers at The All-England Club, and they can't be held personally responsible for the way certain players have been treated by the press or by officialdom at worldwide tennis tournaments.

I repeat, I'm glad the Williams' sisters have been beaten for no other reason than I find them boring to watch. In short, I don't like their games and that has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that they are black.

I've watched film of Arthur Ashe and he was a superb player - he also happened to be the first black player to win Wimbledon, and I may be correct in saying that Boris Becker was the first unseeded player and the first German to win Wimbledon as well as being the youngest ever player to win the title, but I'm not aware of any anti-German sentiment being expressed when he won the title.

Like many others, I'll be punching the air if Murray goes out in the quarters because I don't like his style of tennis, and if it's Federer and Nadal in Sunday's final I'm going to be cheering for both of them because I love the way they each play the game - and that, for me, is what it's about.

Racism plays no part in the way that I view sporting events - and it seems to me that you're trying to create a problem on this thread where none exists, or should exist.

I was going to say "how nasty" re some of the comments but I must confess I have always had an intense dislike of Lleyton Hewitt. Can't stand him, never could.

I can't say why.

On the other hand I have always liked the William's sisters. They are more interesting to watch than most of the wishy washy female players on the circuit today.

Somehow the Williams' sisters manage to convey the fact that it is only a game and they also have a life outside tennis.

For Serena to go as far as she has this year not having played for 11 months really demonstrates the lack of talent coming through in the womens' game

Actually I resisted making the point that CloudyDays did about the W. sisters being total underdogs. I am surprised that others did not see this with their 'need' to support the underdog.

don't blame them for the fact that the others players do not have the passion for Wimbledon that the W. sisters have.

I was not in any way indignant, my post was being dismissive of yours because it was so utterly ridiculous to think that there has been any racism whatsoever displayed on this thread.

People that cry discrimination at the drop of a hat do more harm than good.

I am also old enough to remember their career trajectory and have a lot of respect and admiration for them and what they have done for the game.

Nevertheless having an all Williams sister final ruins Wimbledon for me, it doesn't have the same atmosphere and I end up switching it off because I can't get into it. Why is that wrong? It's a subjective opinion and I am allowed to express it without being accused of discrimination.

I tend to support whoever winning would mean the most to. Mostly that's the underdog, but if one of the Williams sisters was going for a record like Federer last year (?) then I would support them. I like an element such as that that adds a bit more meaning to the game.

CaptainBizarro, I think we can all see that when they started, the Williams sisters were underdogs but that doesn't mean they stay that way. People on this thread can hardly be accused of cheering for them until they succeed and then want to put them back in their place. It's been ELEVEN years. After that length of time, it gets boring for the same faces to win every time. It's the same for Federer and was for Sampras/Navràtilovà.

creighton Nothing you say interests me at all now....

Your stupidly ignorant and offensive comment on page one was enough....there's not really any come back for you from that.

And yes, it has been reported.

You should not be allowed to make comments like that (basically pulling the race card) against other mumsnetters....basically accusing them of racism.

You've let yourself down!

Andy Murray certainly doesn't seem to be positioning himself for a post-retirement career in TV presenting, with his dour Scottish voice, and wooden face.

Bloody liven up man!

The Williams sisters clearly did start out with a lot of disadvantages and were underdogs then. However, it would be ridiculous to claim that they are underdogs now. Both are wealthy and both dominate tennis, due to the power of their games. They are not underdogs in any sense.

As others have said, it is their overwhelming dominance of the game that has made them boring to watch - it feels as if, as far as the commentators are concerned, they are the odds-on favourites to win any match they are in - and a forgone conclusion does not make for interesting tennis to watch, nor does a match where one player utterly wipes the floor with another.

You see both of these factors in other players - Nadal, for example, Sampras in his time, Becker in his - and that does not make for interesting tennis to watch either.

I got the impression from the Williams sisters that they felt entitled to win every match they played in, and I objected to that arrogance. It was very clearly shown in Serena's objections to playing on No2 court this year.

My objections to the Williams sisters is based on their dominance of the game and their attitudes - neither of which have anything whatsoever to do with their skin colour. I prefer to watch interesting tennis, in which both players have a chance of winning, and I don't like arrogance, no matter who it is from.

Agreed SDTG!

I happen to think there is something quite bigoted in creighton's attitudes actually - s/he clearly sees the Williams sisters as black tennis players first and foremost and therefore assumes that anyone who doesn't support them does so because they are black.

well arrogance, bad manners and foul language are not going to win you general admiration so I find nothing strange in it if people are happy to see them go.

Roger Federer plays tennis every bit as well as the Williams sisters do and how arrogant is he? Not at all as far as I can pick up on it.

There are plenty of athletes who are brilliant but pleasant - Ichiro Suzuki for example if I can stray to baseball, is about as good as it gets and if he is the least bit arrogant, it never ever shows. In fact he is my hero

You just can't compare an athlete who competes in a team sport with s tennis player.

With tennis it is you and only you out there; the buck stops with you, there is no-one else to rely on - it is hand-to-hand combat. It stands to reason that the drive to win and beat your opponent will be that much more ferocious - it's a different, and yes more arrogant, personality required altogether.

Also, I don't really see how the sisters can be blamed for dulling down the game by virtue of their win being a foregone conclusion. Surely that is the fault of their less-able competitors? What are they meant to - take it down a level to make it more 'interesting'?!

not all good tennis players are arrogant. Steffi Graf?

Oh don't be silly, CB - no-one is saying that. But it did make the tennis less interesting to watch, when the whole of the Wimbledon Ladies' competition felt like a foregone conclusion - for me, at any rate.

But CaptainBizarro, no-one is blaming them, nor are they saying they should take it down a level to make it more interesting. Of course not. They are simply saying it's become boring. Nothing to do with race, nothing to do with from where they started out, nothing to do with their less abled competitors, simply that it is boring for the audience and therefore they are glad they are out so that the competition will be more interesting from now on.

I'm wondering if the accusations of racism are being used as a somewhat bullying tactic to silence those of us who are glad the Williams sisters are out of Wimbledon. That's pretty shabby treatment, in my book - now who was it, on this thread, who criticised people who treat others shabbily - oh yes, it was creighton.

No, the talk of racism isn't a bullying tactic or a ruse to be used as a get out of jail free card. I do not think that any of you have been bullied or cowed by me. On the contrary, you all seem pleased with yourselves and I have been reported to MNHQ, you don't sound cowed by me at all!

SDTG, you have to believe that you will win every match or you will not win anything. As to their sense of entitlement re court 2, the organisers should just follow protocol and any objections will not stand up to scrutiny.

Georgimama, they are black in a very white sport. I do not expect everyone to support them. I don't care who wins as I have said before.

If their winning seems a foregone conclusion, tell the others to make an effort. Any player can be beaten.

sausagesandmarmelade, well really, how patronising are you? 'you've let yourself down'. Do you want me to 'play the white man' and raise my level of behaviour to a civilised level?

I do stand by what I have said. If you ( a general 'you') are upset by what I have written, you should take other people's feelings into account when you write. It cuts both ways.

Did you read Longtime's post, creighton? That pretty much sums up my feelings about the dominance of tennis by any one player, whoever that may be. Of course other players are free to up their games and beat them, and now two have.

"Culturally we dislike physically powerful, assertive women with a strong will to win"

I disagree with that cat. Am quite enjoying watching the women's football with dd and see a fair few powerful, assertive women with a will to win.

i had a problem with the vitriol I read, not the fact that they were beaten. as i said before, it was surprising that both lost on the same day with the no.1 seed. the losing was never the problem.

anyway, i have to stop, am at work, lunchtime is over.

I didn't think anyone on this thread was being racist in what they had to say about the Williams.

Would be interesting to read what they have had to say about racism they may have experienced whilst getting established in the sport though. I don't know if it is rife in tennis or was when they set out, no idea at all being one ofthe prim little whites they don't much care about.

ah prissy apparently not prim