Are we too strict? Is my mother right?

[MadYoungCatLady]

Hi I'm really doubting my parenting skills after my mum told me she thinks me and DP are too strict on my DS (almost 4).
He is a very lively child, very sure of himself to the point of disrespect towards us, and if we try to give him any undivided attention he gets totally hyper and starts practically bouncing off the walls. We have to put up with being screamed at whenever we try to calm him down, he will say things such as "i will just cry so loud you can't hear" if he is told not to interrupt or if, on the odd occasion, one of us tries to watch a tv programme, if we tell him off he laughs in our face, he kicks us and even spat on DP at bedtime the other day.
We want him to grow up respectful, polite and aware of others feelings, and due to this we try to make sure he sticks to some basic ground rules. These include:
Dressing himself in the morning, or at least giving it a go
Sitting at the table and eating his meals 'tidy' - not playing with his food, using cutlery etc
Saying please and thank you before he is given something
Washing his hands after the toilet
Not touching things he has been told not to
Sharing with other childen (he is very good at this tho bless him!)
Holding hands and NOT letting go when by a road or in a crowded shop
Not running off when we are out - even if its only a little bit unless we say its a safe place to run

We expect these rules to still apply when we are out in public, but my mum told me yesterday when we were out with her that we don't give DS enough freedom, we will knock all the stuffing out of him and we are bordering on ABUSE. I am feeling all kind of emotions - I have been struggling with DS as has DP for about 3 months since moving, and DS's behaviour has become harder to cope with (understandably due to change in circumstances but still driving us up the blinking wall no less), and for my mum to say this is a major blow.

Is she right? Are we too strict?

maybe food nd dressing are little hard, but that depends on ds. being able to dress oneself for pe aat school is a good skill to have. as is eating nicely. I would be expecting to work towards this though. depends on how you discipline him if he doesn't do these things.

all your rules sound perfectly fine to me. My kids follow similar rules. How you enforce them is a different matter. We calmly/patiently use time out/naughty step so there is no shouting or smaking in our house.

It took us a year and a half to settle into our new town. My kids were a bit out of step for quite a long time.

Nope! My kid just uses his fingers.

What can I say? We're heathens.

Nothing wrong with the rules imo - even expecting a nearly 4 yo to dress or use cutlery. If they CAN do it. I would expect them to do it too. I only ever dress my 3 yo if I'm running late

Is your mum usually the type to put you down and say hurtful things OP? If she is there's your answer. If not are the consequences you give for bad behaviour excessive and do you praise him a lot for good behaviour?

I agree with what a pp said that going by your description of his behaviour it certainly doesn't sound like you are knocking the stuffing out of him!

i think your rules sound fine and i would expect a child by that age to use cuttlery but need a bit of help with cutting up etc the same with getting dressed.

tbh tho i am shocked by the spitting and the kicking, is this unusual behaviour? i dont think he is being disrespectful, trying it on, or trying to get attention maybe and i would be very firm with a child that did that in explaining it is not ok and giving time out or whatever punishment you use.

the rules dont sound too bad at all but if you are always nagging/ getting at him then maybe you seem stricter/harsher than you are?

Well my rules are the same as yours and DS is not 3 yet! He obviously needs some help with dressing, and cutting food up, but I actively encourage all the things you mention, and certainly insist on most of them.

Having had to teach DSSs to eat with a knife & fork up until DSS1 was 12 , let's just say you can't start these things to early! And as for the behaviour, I think setting guidelines at this age will make life so much easier in the long run

What a lot of nonsense!

Whose rules?

Yours.

Fine, but you can't insist them upon children who are too young to understand.

Desiderata - I think you are doing the majority of almost 4 yo's a disservice to say they are not developmentally able to dress themselves. Aside from the occasional stiff button or shoelaces dd and every one of her peers dress themselves. Are they all gifted or something?

sorry it has taken me so long to come back with a reply!

How do we implement our rules? It honestly depends on the way he has behaved I guess. If DS is playing with food for example, we will say something such as "Stop playing with your food, eat it nicely." If it happened again, probably say something along the lines of "Now I've asked you to eat that nicely, do it again and we will take it away." If he carries on (generally with a smile on his face if he is playing up), we do take the food. He probably bursts into tears. We feel like evil people. Remind him that he had be warned twice. Ask him if he will eat nicely. He says yes. We give food back.
Re positive behaviour - I practically wet myself with enthusiasm towards it. Its not that it doesnt happen often, I just get so proud :) I tell him frequently he is a very good boy, heap compliments about his personality upon him, try to be really affectionate and tell him at least a few times a day how much I love him.
I dont give him my undivided attention 24/7, I suffer from bi polar and sometimes simply do not have anything to give, this is when DP will step in and help out. I may need some time alone to try to pull myself up and out of a depressed stage ( I simply cannot wallow in it, it drives me nuts) but during this time I will ask if DS wants to come and do something like his workbook or watch his favourite tv programme cuddled up on the sofa. Things were a bit like this today as I have been feeling like I'm doing a blinking lousy job and should be branded with "BAD PARENT"! We watched his favourite tv programme whilst having a lovely cuddle, then decided to have a quirky day, we got in my bed and watched a film with a bed picnic! Later on his friend came over and they played in the garden whilst DP monitored but let them pretty much get on with it, stepping in if trouble brewed and offering drinks (sounds like a bouncer/waiter!). Then we all went to a local restaurant for a treat for dinner. The only thing we needed to say anything about was him trying to talk to me whilst reversing out of a tricky space (just asked him to wait a minute to talk to mummy as she has to concentrate (i.e. shes rather thick at reversing and needs to employ every braincell)) and not to eat a lemon once it had been wiped around the table. And not to just eat mayonnaise off his fork, ewwwww!
I would never smack DS under any circumstance. Each to their own, but I just do not think there should be need for violence towards a child. Although my mother response the other day when we told her of the spitting and kicking was to smack him! My dad threatened it to my nephew once (about 4 at the time) and my nephew responded by pointing to his chin and said "go on then!". Where would that get anyone?
I think the top and bottom seems to be my mother saw a snippet of a bad day - maybe we did nag just a bit, but we had all got to that horribly frustrated point of the day where tiredness takes over and rationality is starting to ebb away. He was taken out of a shop when he wouldnt hold my mums hand and started touching things to calm down for a bit. This prompted tears and DS screaming for nanny. Nanny is extremely soft and would have let him run around the shop if thats what he wanted. We just dont operate like that.
Have spoken to my mum again today - my dad has told her to butt out, but she is still adamant she is right and we will slowly destroy him with our rules and 'constant criticism'. I do not expect him to be perfect (how boring would life be?) but just trying to bring him up with the best oppurtunities.
Honestly, the kicking etc we dont know what on earth to do. I guess we tell him no, that hurts, would you like us to hurt you (not that we would but an attempt to put it in perspective in his eyes) although I know he probably doesnt understand what he is doing when he lashes out, just that he is frustrated. Any advice on that would be much appreciated :)

I just wanted to say that what you are doing is parenting your son. :)

Your dad is right and your mum needs to butt out.

Dear MYCL, I agree with ADAGOO, it is parenting and you are doing it well , as for kicking, try the techniques Jo Frost advocates,

When he displays aggressive behaviour, you go down onto his level, take his both arms and hold firmly down in line with his body, you drop your voice and you say looking him straight in the eye:

You do no hit mummy, I repeat you do not hit mummy, naughty step should follow for four minutes, kiss and make up with him saying sorry to you, repeat as necessary, i swear by it works, if done properly you will nip it quickly. Good luck

OK so your mum things that the way you discipline your son is abusive but her alternative is to smack him .
Tbh it sounds to me like you parent differently to your mum and a lot better imo and perhaps she takes it as an insult to her parenting style.
Be confident in your way of parenting. If your mum makes any more comments just tell her that you disagree and as you're the mum you will do things your way.

Each child develops at their own rate I guess, but mine seems to be in line with average and is more than able to feed himself with a spoon or fork, and is eager to use a knife to cut his food up now too. I'm sure in other cultures they do not use cutlery, but in this one we do.

Zlaya, I think I will take a photo of your line "you are doing it well" and frame it!!! I never seem to get that from anyone but my DP - my family are so quick to judge every little thing I do wrong and forget to occasionally offer praise for how I am handling this job we call parenting! :)

Sounds like you are doing fine.

Going by the examples you've given it's not 100% clear, but it might be worthwhile being very specific when you praise your DS e.g. "I love the way you have eaten your tea and used your knife and fork so nicely", "I've had a lovely day today - it's really nice when you are kind and gentle", "Thank you for being quiet this afternoon, I was really tired and enjoyed cuddling with you". (N.B. please find your own words - otherwise it will sound like shite).

Also, have you ever heard the saying that young children don't hear the 'no' in an instruction? If you say "Don't run", they only hear the "run" bit (ditto for "Don't make a mess", "Don't hit" etc.) You could try rephasing instructions to miss out the "no" bit, so say "Walk nicely" instead of "don't run" and say "Play gently" instead of "don't hit".

Not only might this help your DS, but it might sound to your DM if you are nagging less and get her off your back too.

Good luck.

BTW Madyoungcatlady, just x-posted with your last post. What you said about your family criticising you and forgetting to praise you...that might be how your DS feels sometimes too when you've all had a bad day (and he is only 3yo) so don't be afraid to cut him a bit of slack and praise the little things.

Your rules seem similar to mine. My mum tells me I'm too strict too.

You know what madlady from your post above your doing a great job.

Especially with also recognising your own personal challenges with MH problems and how you don't let them affect your DS or you adapt your day to your mood.

Can you answer my question about if DS is starting school? (post ^^) because I know for me this made such a difference because DS had to be able to do things earlier than his peers (dressing etc) because they must before they start school. Just added stress for paernts on top of having to watch our just turned 4yo walk into school.

I expect as well that you are more conscious of his behaviour when with others, even your mum and dad, so I wonder if you expect more of him then, perhaps subconsciously, and consequentlyaree more critical? We all want our parents and others to think that we are good parents, so it would be entirely understandable.

DS doesnt start school til next september, but we do treat pre school like 'school' in that he doesnt miss days, has to be ready on time etc.
I think I am probably a lot more concious of his behaviour in front of others, especially yesterday as my auntie and cousin were also there and my mum was kind of showing DS off - sing my favourite song, do the alphabet again, do a backflip whilst making sushi kinda thing - seemed she wanted all the credit for how 'good' he is. Maybe I came across harsh because he had been made over-excited and it was me dealing with the cnsequences.
When we are out with DP's family (DP is step dad to answer an earlier question) DS is a total angel and DP's family are very complimentary about DS.
I pretty much compliment DS on anything he does which can be considered well behaved, kind, polite etc - "awww, thats so nice of you to cuddle mummy, mummy feels very happy when you cuddle", "thats a beautiful song you're singing sweetheart", "you've done very well with your dinner tonight", "thats very nice of you to say please and thank you" etc. Also, I practice what I preach - if I ask him to do anything, I also say please and thank you after he does it.
I think some of the problem may be that it doesnt matter what I do, in my mums eyes it wont be good enough unless I am doing exactly what she tells me to do - and she lets him run wild (shes let him run into a road, lost him in a supermarket and let him wet himself because she was arguing with a security guard). Did I criticise her for these things? No, I just thought she probably feels awful enough!

Your mum is being a real
Cow and needs to butt out. Maybe it is time to treat her like a child and tell her you have certain rules when it comes to your ds:

That she has to follow your rules
No smacking
No going against your rules and giving into him
Butt the fuck out with her criticisms

You are doing brilliantly - a really conscientious parent x

sounds like you are doing a great job. Some of what you said earlier about the kicking spitting etc resonated though. DS did this and at times became extremely violent and abusive towards us and his sisters. Escalated to extreme rages, trashing the house, school refusing. We did as you are doing, praising the good all the time, and were on a list for behavioural support but never got to the top of it. Tried all sorts of strategies and gradually, particularly as he got older, we were able to talk things through with him and try and understand the triggers. Discovered a very bright young mind, ahead of it's physical capabilities so huge frustration at not being able to articulate and beign furious with himself when he couldn't do something or "got it wrong". Once, when he was about 6/7, after a HUGE rage he lay sobbing and said "I'm not a bad boy. It's just like I've got all the jigsaw pieces but can't make them fit together!". Now he is 9 and much calmer although he still dislikes changes to his routine, and lacks some social interaction. Not trying to scare you OP and hopefully none of this will apply,but it sounds like you are doing brilliantly with your little one.

It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job!

I have a 4 year old DS and I can totally sympathise that you have some days where you get to a ratty/nagging/tired place by the end of the day. Your mother does not have your DS day in day out so will probably never get to this place! If she did, I guarantee she would be more sympathetic towards you!

Re the kicking, DS used to bite and hit and we stopped this pretty quickly by using time out the very first time he does it, explain why he is having time out, get him after 4 minutes, tell him to appologise and if he does it again, repeat! He was "cured" in a week.

I did the same as rick to get my DS to stop hitting.

However, he did start to play up for his own entertainment. He now has a chart. His 'treats' eg. a biscuit or sweet at 11am and 3pm depend on good behaviour. He decided what good behaviour was (being good at the table, kind to his sister, helping, tidying up etc etc) If he hits, or if I get to a 3 when warning him to stop something, he gets a cross on the chart and no treat. At the end of the day we talk about his behaviour that day and stick a star on the chart. If he gets 7 stars ( he has every week so far :) )I'll buy him a £3 bit of tat like a transformer toy.

This has meant that he reconsiders whether winding up his mummy is worth more than a star or toy reward.