to think that you can either have a clean, tidy and uncluttered house OR happy children but not both?

[GreenTeapot]

Or can you manage both? How do you do it?

It's perfectly possible to have a happy medium.

We have two DCs aged 2.5ys and 3 months. Plus two hairy indoor cats. Our house is tidy and clean to a point. We tidy and clean as we go along, which involves rather a lot of tidying and cleaning but is the only way it doesn't get out of hand.

I also have a 3hr stint once a week to change beds, vacuum, iron and do any bigger jobs. DH vacuums once a week, mows and does the bins.

This plus a cleaner once a fortnight for 2hrs is enough.

Plenty of toy storage and teaching DD to put her own things away are crucial. DD is happy as she can always find her toys without help and I'm happy as I never end up standing on stray bits of duplo...

We're certainly not a white carpets and shoes off kind of a household, and if you sit in the wrong chair you might find your arse covered in cat hair, but we have happy children who are free to play as they like and know things must be put away afterwards, and our house is always clean, tidy and orderly.

"people that think its ok to live in filth/don't wash kids/wear dirty clothes"

Where?

I have just realised with some amusement that all the YANBUs came earlier on while the YABUs were busy preventing arse-expansion by hoovering

Quite a bit bossh. Floor washing and hoovering mainly, Dog poo in garden. Then i have 2 dd's with excema which i cover in cream so have to change the bedding quite a bit and another dd who is the messiest kid ever

A place for everything... is a good motto but in really the 'things' keep changing so the seemingly constant re-thinking, planning and working out systems can be mind numbing. eg. big toy baskets for toddler toys are pretty easy, but then it all changes to tiiiiiiny little doll things, and special lego models. A DD who is constantly packing and repacking various bags with random rubbish special things doesn't help as she can turn her room upside down in 5 mins flat. I don't worry so much about their bedrooms - their rooms - their stuff, but they have to be hooverable once a week.

Any tips for paperwork piles. Where does all your filing go?

BeenBeta, I find your description of your house and routines mildly terrifying.

I am definitely NOT one of life's natural tidiers, and I wish I was. My MIL is. She tidies automatically as she goes along. Doesn't even appear to know she is doing it. We're in a too-small flat and hope to move soon, which will make things better, but we've just got the flat in a non-embarrassing state and so far have maintained it.

However, it is difficult in a one-bed flat with no real outside space. Washing has to be dried on a clothes horse in the kitchen. There is not enough storage and nowhere for storage to go. Those of you with 4+ bedrooms, playrooms, utility rooms etc may find it hard to accept, but it is quite difficult to keep on top of. There is nowhere, for instance, to store a hoover. Not enough wardrobe space, nowhere specific to do paperwork (am a teacher), no extra space whatsoever outside of bedroom, bathroom, kitchen and living room.

I will admit, however, to being pathologically lazy and not making it better for myself.

'child-free rooms' - only on mn.

Thank the lord I never grew up in a house that repressed.

Expedit here is THE best thing in Ikea. The come in different sizes, but the 4x2 is partually good for kids bedrooms. On its long side it gives you 8 storage cubes and pictures or more boxes on the top can still be reached easily. There is also no real risk of it toppling over either. They are often for sale assembled in the bargain corner and often on offer.

Combine with the DRÖNA here boxes for the cheapest storage option.

We have boxes along the bottom for toys and keep games and jigsaws in open cubes along the top.

Have recommend to friends and all agree it is a fab storage option for the money.

We also have a rectangular Trofast unit - not so good for toys, but excellent for keeping craft stuff in. We have a box for craft, a box for paints, box for playdough... you get my drift.

I reckon though you get 3x more storage by using an Expedit over a more expensive Trofast unit.

We have lived in quite a few rented houses over the years. The dirtiest we ever moved into was owned by a bohemian academic. We spent a week cleaning it before we moved the furniture in. Their children had written grafitti inside the wardrobes and stuffed rubbish down between the radiator and walls. The back passage was caked in cat hair and a sort of grey film that stank. They had an open uncapped sewer under the dining room floor. I used to muck pigs out for my Dad on his farm but humans are far worse.

IME, the word 'bohemian' almost always means slovernly and a bit mucky.

keep reading about how easy it is to keep your home tidy then people mention nurseries and nannies and cleaners and spare rooms and kids at school all day and parents that help and partners that are around during the day and realise a lot them do not have a clue.

and breathe. (three under five. no nurseries, no family. no husband til late. ) If I make it to 7 and they are all fed and I havent shouted my day has gone well sod the mess (that takes me til 8!)

Not saying all academics are bohemian or slovernly and mucky.

Any tips for paperwork piles. Where does all your filing go?

• Concertina files for all paperwork related to DD eg Medical, Nursery, Birth Cert, Savings.
• I have lever-arch file for House Admin divided into sections for mortgage, house insurance, council tax, recent utility bills
• I have a box file for my own Personal Admin with sections for Pension, Savings, Banking, Medical, Work etc
• DH has the same for his.
• All other older utility etc bills and paperwork are filed in separate archive boxes.
• We both also have in trays for immediate things - I deal with all my paperwork once a week - takes only 10 mins max to file away; DH does his once a month or so and it takes him an hour or more.

Works for us and has worked for many years.

tralalala, yes a very good point. I stand accused.

My house is clean and tidy and my kids are happy and active. Personally I can't relax if the house is too messy. It just gets on my nerves. So I tidy up as I go along and as a result I am pretty chilled most of the time Keeping on top of the laundry is my weak point.

SlackSally - I forgot to mention every wall and ceiling and window frame in our house is pure white and the floors/doors light wood with occassional white tiles, or pale cream carpets and rugs.

That terrifying enough for you?

My house is by no means immaculate but it's fairly clean and tidy. I think provided you have enough storage and do things as you go it takes very little effort to keep it reasonable; it used to feel like far more work/effort when I used to have to spend an hour washing up, scrub the bathroom, hoover and dust before I felt able to let people into my house.

I used the slatterns thread on here when I was struggling and it really helped me get my house to a level that I was comfortable with.

My dc are not neglected or unhappy for it, I tend to do 5 mins(or less) here and there so it's not like I'm constantly cleaning around them. There are often toys all over the floor but they all have a home and get tidied away into it.

They paint/do crafty stuff/use playdo etc although I admit I do find it stressful keeping the mess of it to one area so don't do it unless they ask to

MoreBeta IME, the word 'bohemian' almost always means slovernly and a bit mucky.

Hey!!

Ooh, yes, we have three seperate expidit storage cubes with baskets/ boxes that the toys go into. Plus a big seventies sideboard.
Paperwork goes into my filing cabinet. I am not saying it's never messy, but I never let it get out of hand, and I am a relentless anti-hoarder-I do a cull regularly whereby charity bags get filled with stuff-we get most of our books and toys from a local charity shop, and they end up back there at some point.

Ah, Virgo! I shared a flat once with a Virgo, it was the only time i ever got deposit back from landlord!

morebeta i thought for a minute you might be my husband but he's sitting on our cream sofa with his shoes on the cream rug, next to the white walls, so you can't be...

i second the 'expedit' storage thingies, we have lots of them for the kids' toys, they are brilliant.

Surely if noone is home all day there's noone there to make a mess? If you have a CM in your home s/he must tidy up too, well any mess that is made whilst s/he's there, part of being a CM must be to teach children to tidy?

I'm not perfect, a few years ago my house was dire but I have made a conscious effort to change and not let the house get into a real mess. I slip a bit, on occasion and then have to have a big tidy up to avoid so much time wasted looking for stuff. The big tidy has lessened over time because that's even more time wasted, so I avoid it!!

Fly Lady was a great help!

norm, thank goodness for that. i just need beta to 'fess up that he was kidding too, then all will be right with the world. (sadly have known many virgo types though, and suspect he may not be kidding)

tralala - I agree. I find it is much easier to keep the house clean and tidy when I am out working during the day... when at home with the DCs the house needs pretty constant work. A little bit here and a little bit there...

Also second Expedit storage. We have this in our living room with the wicker insert boxes. Absolutely brilliant for all DD's endless bags filled with little dolls and random crap.

Re paperwork - we have a system that seems to work.

• Letter rack for new post, junk mail straight in recycling, all post opened daily
• DH and I each have a 'to do' and a 'to file' cardboard folder into which post and other items go. We each have an admin hour once a week when these get dealt with
• Filing cabinet for paperwork that needs to be kept. All categorised and stored in individual cardboard folders (e.g. banking, health, insurance, ID docs)

BeenBeta

I'm rocking quietly. What do you do if something gets spilt on the cream carpet or (somehow) against a white wall?

i go through phases.tonight every room is untidy apart from the playroom,the bathroom and the ensuite.they are shiny!