Trolls and emotional leeches

[LoopyLoopsBettyBoops]

Why do they do it? I just don't get it. Recent trolly threads about tokophobia (particularly the stillbirth one) have been really distressing for a lot of people. Why would you want that? I just don't get it.

Reported it too

I'm scanning it now, and it is strongly reminding me of a poster several months ago who claimed to have a baby in the U.S. with leukaemia. That was deleted after she tripped herself up with timings and it became obvious was a troll.

They are defo the same person, well done for spotting it.

I have reported.

Going against the grain, maybe, but I don't mind trolls all that much. Generally they, like the stillbirth/induction/tokophobia one, raise real issues that can bear discussion. I've seen many threads here deleted because the OP was trolling, which I thought should have been left standing. They contained genuinely helpful & interesting replies, and those could have helped another person who'd arrived here by googling a similar issue.

Problems arise when a troll is unduly aggressive (so will be ignored and/or deleted anyway) and when respondents get very involved with the thread. The American cancer troll had people giving up time and money to help her, even cutting their work hours to keep her company via webcam. The DSM is currently investigating cases like this, to see whether it should be considered a manifestation of Munchausen's Syndrome.

Certainly, some posters are deeply distressed or confused and that can make them come across as trolls (I'm thinking of Boxroom, there are others.)

I've seen Mumsnetters go out to help others in real life; I've always assumed they'd 'known' each other for a while. If that happened for a poster who turned out to be a troll, I'd be gutted. Basically, it's important to remember you do not know all your readers - especially on a big site like this one. Only 1 in 10 forum readers post, so you're always talking to strangers. I do think troill threads can be useful even if the OP was insincere, though.

Interesting point, and largely I agree, but they can be helpful and distressing at the same time. When other posters post their harrowing stories only to be criticised and tormented (like TheQueen was in the thread in question), any value that could be gained is lost, surely?

Garlicnutter
Problem with the stillbirth thread was that posters who had had lost children were being upset by the charge that they were strange and unnatural for wishing for a VB.

You can have a discussion about stillbirth and VB vs CS without making posters feel bad.

I had always wondered why CS was not offered, now I know. But the way in which I gained this knowledge leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks for pointing that out. I only read one of the threads, hadn't realised there were several! In the one I was on, she was variously shouted down and ignored for trying to attack other people's choices & views. She so steadfastly refused to acknowledge the evidence that was posted, there was obviously something weird going on with her.

As she seems to have succeeded in really upsetting people on her other efforts - then, yes, they should have been deleted. I feel it's worth leaving at least one of them here, though. Loads of people are unaware of what happens with a stillbirth, far less of the reasons behind differing procedures here and in other countries.

Oh - and I learned about tokophobia! Thank you, fellow posters on troll thread :)

Have all the suspect threads now been deleted?

MNHQ changed the title of the stillbirth one to include a warning about the content, but didn't delete.

Then they deleted the one about tokophobia after everyone instantly spotted the identically style and I (and I assume others) reported it.

Now HelenMNHQ has posted a comment on the stillbirth thread to say it is now being deleted....in fact a quick check seems to show it has gone.

Is that it? Or are there more threads lingering?

Good, about time too!

Tokophobia (not stillbirth) one still there

Loopy - well I'm on a roll today and have reported that one too - just to add my voice to everyone else's.

I'm glad it has gone. Usually I feel pretty strongly that threads ought to stay - as garlic said sometimes they raise valid questions and often you can learn something.

What I do object to was that my early posts in which I expressed sympathy towards both the OP and her "friend" and provided some practal information were deleted at the request of the OP because right at the end I told her, if she was a troll, to fuck off.

Thereafter she took every opportunity to bait me and lie that I had been unkind to her and her friend by way of a defence. With the "evidence" that I had not having been removed it made me quite uncomfortable that people might believe I had been unkind about a bereaved mother. That is what made me angry.

As I said upthread I think the thread self moderated really well and personally I would have been far happier if the entire thread, complete with personal insults directed at me, had stood. Deleteing individual posts doesn't seem to work terribly well.

I used to be in favour of thread deletions and have come to see that it is sometimes better to leave a thread so that everyone sees what has been said and can make up their own minds.

In a case like this where the topic is such a sensitive topic that has the potential to upset and worry pregnant women or bereaved mothers seeking advice and support, I think it is better it goes.

If a recently bereaved mother had read that thread then she night well have been frightened away from the fantasic support that is MN.

Ladies, please report if you have any suspicions.

I'm a reasonably new poster and I had before reading this thread only really thought that some OPs were trolls when the post was ridiculously silly or might be trolls when they seemed unreasonably dramatic and soap opera-ish (like the OP posting in real time as the marital crisis was happening right then). I hadn't really thought about this type of troll and it's really sad. I looked at the thread I thought you were referring to, and it seems the poster might have issues other than those in her OP. I'd be worried about labelling someone a troll if they weren't (don't mean that critically of other people at all). Bit of an eye-opener.

Well I'm glad it's gone as well. It was horrible to see the vile things that person was posting towards the women on the thread who had gone through a stillbirth. There should be a special kind of hell reserved for people who think it's "funny" to bait people who've been through that kind of tragedy in their lives. And it the troll has MH problems, then they need Help - but it's still no excuse for being so vile.

Only one of the three threads that Loops says are by the same troll is still up;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childbirth/1218030-Tokophobia-and-elective-c-section?pg=3
I read it, but Lara doesn't seem like a troll to me; what makes it obvious in that thread that she is trolling?

She was clearly a sock puppet for the OP on the stillbirth one, then forgot to change back and posted as the OP.

I am glad the stillbirth thread went - because within that one thread there were several inconstancies from OP and very insensitive language.

Bearing in mind garlicnutter's posts above - just because one thread merited deletion, it does not follow that all others that may have raised related concerns should automatically go. That's a decision for MNHQ - who have had this whole set of suspicions highlighted to them.

ILoveYouToo - did you read the stillbirth thread that has now been deleted? I did, was one of the first responders on it - having just read most of the LaraCameron one, there are distinct similarities in posting detail, if not quite so abrasive in style.
There is discussion about Indian maternity services, for e.g. - Birkin said her ma was an ob/gyn working in India. Lara also said she's not originally from the UK and where she comes from it's all medical insurance - could be the USA, where Birking came from.
Sneering at people for believing in their medics and their health service is not so pronounced but is still there.

Of course, it could just be that two people have the same thoughts, feelings and fears - of course that's possible - but there are some uncanny links.

I think deleting the stillbirth thread was definitely the right thing to do, I know people have said there was useful information on there from other posters and they had learnt something from it, but I can imagine a situation where someone started googling after getting bad news at an antenatal appointment and could have ended up with that thread. There are plenty of threads on here where people have been supported through horrific situations, by posters who are willing to share their time and experiences, that anyone in a vulnerable position would be better off finding.

I suppose it is possible that Lara is a real person who is pregnant and tokophobic, who then came up with a 'worst case' scenario to try and justify CS on demand. I could almost believe it if she hadn't posted as Carrie (tokophobic but not pregnant) in between.

The Carrie thread also deserved deletion IMO, towards the end the way she was talking about the injuries suffered during births was strange and almost gloating. It looked like it was supposed to scare pregnant women, or make anyone who had suffered birth injuries feel bad about having attempted a natural birth.

All very odd though.

One Born Every Minute was filmed at the Princess Anne Ward of Southampton General. There is no Princess Anne hospital. That's what convinced me of the trolling - I was born there, still ive fairly locally and people go to Southampton (or Ashurst if they're low risk)...

ok, i posted on that thread in the early stages, i didnt give much personal information but the OP seemed so angry, ill informed and almost hateful of the NHS that in the heat of the moment I felt I had to try and put across the opposite of what she was saying. It has opened up some very old memories, ones that I had repressed for a long time, Ive been feeling really quite sick over it but have been unable to talk to anyone in RL as Im not even sure where to start.

My DD is now nearly 17 and I keep looking at her and thinking i was your age, how the hell did I cope and just feeling bloody sad and upset about it all. The OP made me so angry, I wanted to shout at her you have no bloody idea.

Not quite sure what my point is, why I clicked onto that thread I dont know, although it wasnt clearly titled at the time, but, I suppose Im just adding my voice as to how hurtful and damaging these trolls` if she was are.