To think this can't be allowed.

[mrswhiskerson]

Dh has been on the sick for the past three days with a very bad stomach , his supervisor rang and left a voice message saying he did not beleive dh was Ill and implied dh is skiving until his holiday, he also threatens to ring hr and report dh for unauthorised absence and stop his pay for three weeks (sickness and holiday pay)

dh has a bad sickness record due to recurring depression and ongoing health problems but he has never skived for the sake of it . His employers know his health problems but onamy occasions have accused him of being a liar.
Am I right in thinking this is not allowed ?
The current situation is not helping his depression at all and I am really worried about him.

Mrs W, your husband should ensure he keeps a record of these incidents. He is under NO legal obligation to produce a sick certificate until he has been off for 7 days or more (though, if he can obtain one from his GP earlier, he may of his own volition hand it in). They should not be bombarding him with contact more than once a day - one phone-call a day is sufficient, and should be at a time agreed between your DH and his employer.

I would strongly advise your DH to get in touch with and/or seek advice from ACAS/CAB. In some instances, your local county or crown court may have "law centres" on on certain days/times during the week where he may be able to speak with a qualified lawyer for free to discuss the matter.

OP are you Catholic?

I will concur with some views expressed here that, due to his extensive periods of absence down to sickness, he may simply not be able to do the job for which he was hired (note that I said, due to his sickness, NOT his inability or refusal to work Sundays which is entirely his prerogative) and that there is a chance that he will be managed out under their sickness absence procedures, but at least that would/ought to be for a genuine reason. Your DH also needs to be honest with himself. If he has been hired to work, say, full-time and really, over a long period, he has only reached capacity for an average of 2 days a week, then he ought to be discussing with his employers the chance of reducing his workload/days worked accordingly and realise/accept that this will also result in a justifiable drop in his pay.

Again, speak to your CAB/ACAS. Alternatively, if your DH is a union member, he should discuss this with one of his union reps.

And once again, Catholicism has nothing to do with it - it's just a distraction, both for your DH and his employers. Frankly, your DH should not be trying to use the argument of him being Catholic to excuse his not working on Sundays. He is not working on Sundays because his contract dictates his working hours, and Sundays were specifically excluded. If theyw ant him to work Sundays so badly, rather than try to informally pressure him, they should alter his contract and deal with the consequences.

Eve puts it better than MrsW about the not working Sundays.

'If you had agreed to work part time on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and it was written into your contract, then all of a sudden, work required you to come in regularly on Tuesdays, you would be pissed off.'

This is really a question about how to deal with how his boss is dealing with him when he is ill and the way that he is doing it probably is not in line with the company sickness policy. MrsW do you have a copy of this? Your DH can request it from HR. I would get your DH to contact HR directly about the way that he is being treated with the view of getting it resolved rather than a complaint. I suspect his boss needs some training at least on how to deal with these issues appropriately.

Pointydog, maybe, but if enough people are of one opinion, surely it's worth opening your mind and thinking it through a little bit.

I really don't think it would be a bad idea for the OP's dh to think about working Sundays, even if he is contracted not to, to do his colleagues and his employer a favour in return for them picking up the slack when he has be unable to work.

That's just good teamwork. It's what colleagues should do for eachother, and I think that is far more important than a misguided religious belief that you don't work on Sundays.

The far more pressing issue is his depression which necessitates a couple of months or so off at a time. SOunds like it's time to face that head on and come up with a range of options.

Well a LOT of incorrect information on here. The OP's DH, as a shop worker, does have the right to opt out of sunday working. I have copied the following from direct.gov as it's nice and simple.......

Special rules if you are a shop worker or work in betting

If you work in a shop or in the betting industry (either at a betting shop open to the public or a bookmaker at a sports venue) you have special rights. You can opt out of having to work on Sunday even if your contract says you have to. Your employer has to tell you about this right within two months of hiring you.

These rights don't apply if you are employed to work on Sundays only.
How to opt out of Sunday work

You opt out by writing to your employer and giving them three months' written notice that you want to stop working on Sundays.

If you decide to take the opt-out your employer doesn't have to offer you extra work on other days instead. You are likely to lose the wages you used to earn by working on Sundays.

Don't be worried about how opting out of Sunday working will affect your job security. Your employer is not allowed to treat you unfavourably (for example, deny you overtime or promotion) and you can't be dismissed fairly for refusing to work on Sundays under this right. An Employment Tribunal can award compensation if your employer breaks the rules.

......most shops compensate for this by having weekend only staff. Having said that though, most employees wouldn't want to piss their bosses of so much as to actually opt out (we have a handful where i work).

how much has your dh been absent from work this year?

It's not really a red herring. I see what you are saying and the direct.gov info is very useful but from an employer's point of view, it's one more obstacle that is in the way of their employee doing what he is paid to do and something that he could change for the better very easily, regardless of the other issues.

OK, I'm going to go back to the original OP, as I really cannot be arsed to get into this whole Sunday/not working/your DH is a slacker/not religious facade.

OP - I think you should ask your DH to have a work with his HR dept when he gets back on his feet. It can't be doing his health any good if he's getting bombarded with text messages from his boss. It'll just make him more stressed if, when the time comes, hes off sick again - he needs to know where he stands.

Also, I think you should hide this thread and have a look online for some professional advice. CAB is usually very good, as is Direct Gov.

Hope your DH gets better soon.

so this employee has to have a few months off every 6 months or so? a few usually means 3, so he works half the time he should? he works 3 out of every 6 months?

when he is there he takes frequent breaks

and he refuses to work Sundays due to his devout religious beliefs but doesnt actually back those devout religious beliefs up by attending church?

yeah. i get the picture. i think your DH is actually bloody lucky he still has a job. not many employers would continue with someone who took the piss quite so much. I think your DH employers sound very lenient under the circumstances - there are plenty of people out there who might want your husbands job and who would actually turn up to do it, full time, who took breaks with everyone else and who bent a little on the working hours.

you are being unreasonable. your DH employers sound like they have had enough quite frankly. I bet his colleagues wonder how the hell he gets away with it. Who covers for him 3months out of 6? who covers the sunday shifts? who covers when he disappears for these frequently needed toilet breaks? if i were his employer i would be looking into having him independently medically examined to ascertain what his medical requirements are once and for all.

are all his ailments medically diagnosed?

It's a shame that your focusing on all the negative comments when there are so many helpful comments. Perhaps change your energies to take forward the suggestions.

What does he do on Sundays? I assume he won't take part in anything which involves other people trading?

People are mentioning that he should get a sicknote from his GP as if it offers him protection by proving his illness is genuine.

Yes, it's necessary to have one for absences longer than a week, but it doesn't stop the employer from taking action, up to and including dismissal.

I know this isn't the same situation at all but I was involved, as a manager, in a case where someone with whose foot was broken in a car accident was dismissed for absenteeism. The man in question had a bad record and ended up on a final warning for their attendance perfromance. He knew that any further absence within 6 months would result in dismissal so it was very unfortunate when someone pulled out of a junction and crashed into him. He came into work when he was released from hospital, having missed a few days at work, and was suspended then dismissed. Harsh, but fair (to colleagues) and consistent.

I'm not trying to worry the OP and I know the case isn't the same, but I'd be cautious of thinking that having a doctor's note offers much protection. The employee has rights, but so does the employer.

seems fair enough to me shellyboobs. maybe the op's husband should take note.

I am coming off this thread for now as I am stressed out enough without having to keep arguing the same point with people who are not willing to even read my posts properly and all the negative comments towards
my dh are just making me feel worse. I have enough on my plate.

Thanks to all the people who have posted such good advice , I am still working on how to resolve this , the links and advice are great and I really do appreciate it .

My dh is a lovely man and a fantastic dad who happens to suffer from depression ,he has gone part time and is trying his best to deal with it but it is not easy and the last incidence of sickness was from a
nasty bug he caught off me .
We are looking at alternative employment for him but I think you will all appreciate it is hard in this climate and my dh is keenly aware of the fact his sickness record will not look good to future employers this can sometimes lead him to feeling trapped as there is no way he will quit without another job to go to.
I think I have made it seem like he is off more than he is and I accept blame for that but at the minute I am not thinking straight this situation is just another in what feels like a never ending stream of stress.

All I have to say to the people who are questioning his religion is First read
my posts properly especially the bit where I
say Sundays were agreed
day off from the start and accept it. Second I am not religous by any means but I respect other peoples choice to have a faith and incoporate it into their busy lives as best they can ,neither I nor anyone can question a persons belief chiefly through how many times they go to church .

Again thanks for the great advice I will really get
my teeth into it .

with his track record and refusal to work sundays it is doubtful he would get another job anyway.

People, if you went for a job and couldn't work a specific day, due to childcare for example or because you had another commitment on that day and your new employer before hiring you agreed that you didn't have to work this specific day, would you not be pissed off if they then continued to badger you to do so?

It doesn't matter why he doesn't want to work on this day. It is only comparatively recently that Sunday has become a 'work' day for retailers and some people are just not comfortable with it. His reasons are no less valid because they are a feeling rather than a physical commitment to be somewhere else. It only matters that his employer is trying to change the terms of an agreement that they entered into as freely as the employee.

i think the Sunday working taken in isolation would be fair enough,

but when you put that with the fact he takes "a few months" off out of every 6 months, and then takes frequent breaks, so much so that they actually put a staff call out on the tannoy to retrieve him, builds up a picture of an employee that is probably a bit of a nightmare for his colleagues and his managers. He doesnt sound like he really wants this job.

vicarinatutu. How exactly am I being unreasonable? Because I am trying to sort this mess out ? Because I married someone who suffers depression ?

He does not have three months off every six months. I apologise if I have been a bit misleading on that point but you will have to understand
I am very stressed out right now and not thinking straight I can here looking for advice on what to do next so if you want to say anything g to
me make it some good advice . Btw he does not take off three months for a holiday he has time off when he ls forced too , I have had him at the doctors in tears today because he feels his situation is hopeless and he has been seeking help for sometime now and trying different medications to no avail
, does that make you feel better? He is also undergoing tests to see what is wrong with his physical health .
Since you have so many negative things to say to me how about giving me some actual advice? What would you do in my position?

I have sympathy about the Sunday thing insofar as he seems to have taken the job after discussing it at interview and having it agreed; I am presuming he would not otherwise have accepted the post?

However, given that he does not attend Mass so is free and is regularly away other days for reasons beyond his control (and indeed inactive during the shift for same reasons) then I would suggest that compromise is fair and if this was my DH (who had a similar depression record for a long time, and ended up going self employed after redundancy becuase it isn't fair on a workplace) I'd be urging him to reconsider, at lest until he could change jobs.

As for the depression is it being properly treated? DH was ill for very many eyars (20+ on and off) but changed meds about 2 yeras ago and is now having counselling and actually seems to be recovering.

DH suffers from depression like Peachys for over 20 years and has had a bad year.
His company has sent him to see an Occupational Health specialist who wrote a report concerning his long term prospects and has also classed him as "disabled" which means he can have time off for councelling, doctors appointments.

A thought- is his issue IBS? Dh ahd that alongside the depression for a while.

if so there are meds available which can help and indeed a change opf depression meds helped dh enormously.

But if so then the toilet thing is exceedingly unfair as I presume that they would prefer that than he had an accident over the shop floor!. however I think he should give the immediate boss a pile of paperwork about the syndrome to expalin (I had hyperemesis which nobody ahd ehard of and that ws referred to as just MS until I gave them loads of information).

Also if it is IBS do ensure the GP has properly diagnosed it. Only becuase my BIL almost died after eyars of ulcerative colitis was misdiagnosed as IBS and his colon ruptured.

MrsW it's bloody hard to watch your DH go through depression isn;t it? regardless of the rest, it's a horrid thing.

Please make him keep trying different meds and looking for answers to the toilet issue. And keep thinking laterally as well. DH had no choice as he was amde redundant anyway (company moved to other side of UK) but he is retraining at university and running his own little business and has had only one real relapse in two eyars, lasting only about 3 weeks (one week off university). being able to work around odd sleep patterns etc makes such a difference to him.