to give up on these women? (sorry, long)

[duffybeatmetoit]

Relocated to a small village several hours from our old home a year ago. DH and DD have settled in well and made friends. People have generally been very welcoming and I was invited to join our local WI which meets once a month and is good fun but where I have a toddler the other members are all either grandmothers or great grandmothers. There are a bunch of women whose DCs are at nursery with DD (we mainly all work) who I have met through playdates and are friendly and are always offering to help out with childcare if I need it or to get together for drinks or whatever.

However whenever I see them (either as a group or individually) they always end up discussing nights out they have had together to which I wasn't invited followed by a swift "Oh we must invite you next time" which doesn't materialise. I have tried to organise the odd get together but despite initial interest they always drop out. The only thing I do get invited to are parties for flogging candles/cards etc. I've helped out with childcare but on the couple of occasions where I've needed to organise something I've had somebody say they will help but again pulled out near the time. So I now organise a babysitter or get parents to come and stay, but then when they hear that I'd done that I get collared and told to let one of them help out in future.

They are nice people and we always seem to get on well if I see them out and about or at playdates/parties, and I don't sense any negative vibes when I'm with them but this constant saying one thing and doing another is really getting me down.

AIBU to give up on being anything more than acquaintances with them?

It does sound very confusing and I'm not sure I would know what to do.

If you're in a small village then it's probably worth pursuing for a while longer. They sound well meaning so it seems very odd that all of them keep dropping out. Sorry I don't know what else to suggest.

I appreciate they've known each other for much longer and have been through pregnancies together so are quite bonded as a group and it can be difficult for new people to integrate and I'm not looking to disrupt any existing friendships, just to get a social life.

I don't think you need to 'give up' on them but maybe lower your expectations a little, with group type friendship I think it will always be less 'reliable' than close friendships.

Perhaps one or two of them will develop into close, reliable friendships but maybe not.

Do you have close friends from elsewhere/family to rely on for organised nights out/meals out so you don't worry so much about hoping to be invited/not being invited?

It seems hurtful but if they don't include you/don't remember to invite you then they are probably not going to turn into the friends you would want.

I probably come across as a bit cynical but have not had much success with 'group' friendship.

I wouldn't bother, tbh. But then I'm an antisocial cow. I think if they'd wanted you along on nights out, then they'd have asked you.

I'd suggest being nice when you see them but not expecting any more than that. Is there one of them with whom you 'click' more than the others? Maybe suggest taking the DCs somewhere together so you can get to know her a bit more? Becoming friendly on an individual basis might be easier than trying to infiltrate the group...

Duffy Do your lovely GMs and GGMs at the WI have daughters nearby they could introduce you to? Could you recruit a few new members? Do you keep a look out for any new women/mums moving into the village (sounds like it might be rare)?

I would just be nonchalant/blase about the group friendships - agreed with Imelda that it is hard to penetrate a group. It does sound like you are forgotten and it is very likely that this is not personal at all so please don't let it bother you. Are there any mums of the group that seem friendlier than others that you could strike up a 1 to 1 friendship with?

What about the other mums at nursery? Is there any parent group or way to meet the other nursery mums (know it is difficult and easier said than done when working)?

I doubt they are intentionally leaving you out although I'm sure it must feel that way sometimes. I'd concentrate on making friends with one or two rather than trying to become part of the group. IME the group think follows on from closer friendships with individuals. Trying to make friends with a whole group at once is very difficult.

imelda family and friends are all at least 2 hours away so it's a matter of catching up on weekends away.

ILYT tried that approach with the neighbour but hasn't really worked.

If I didn't have DD I would hardly come into contact with them which would mean no longer having to listen to the constant offers of inviting me to things which would be great. I don't want to jeopardise DD's social life which would happen if I restricted the contact I have with them.

I can't think of a way of asking them to stop making meaningless promises with coming across as aggressive/passive aggressive/needy and without ending up totally isolated. I guess it's just a case of sucking it up, zoning out and not taking it personally.

Offer to host the aforementioned candle party - and be fabulously entertaining!!

Euphemia Are you on Words with Friends? Ooh the time I have dedicated to scrabble recently - I could have learnt a foreign language and changed the world. Instead I now know a lot of uncommon 2 letter words that will never come up in conversation.

hell I've tried inviting a couple of people to WI but it hasn't been for them which is fair enough. Like me the GMs and GGMs families are some distance away.

Most of the group are already loosely paired off already and as I said I don't want people to think I'm trying to invade those relationships as I think you either don't get anywhere or you do and then someone else feels edged out.

God - the more I think about the more negative I'm getting .

At least there's always MN and Facebook.

Duffy Can you come up with some standard 'meaningless' replies to their invites yourself so that you don't feel like the silly dupe saying "oh yes that would be lovely, let's meet for a coffee/go out one night etc" and feel that they are thinking "pfft like we'll let you know really". It sounds like the disingenuousness is getting you down, and you'd rather have a cheery hello and on your way than the false invites.

I think that as adults it is VERY hard to make new friends....we have never made any since we left London... and have had similar experiences to you...no body seems to want to go out with us as a couple...though DH has friends who are in couples and so do I....I can't work it out!

I meet my friends for coffees and playdates...when I have suggested that we should go for drinks or to a comedy club or smething..they're always vague!

Pisses me off tbh. As though I am compartmentalised.

I suspect they think you're not needy at all, and also suspect you probably present as quite confident eg joining WI. Do you also have old friends still that you talk about and see at weekends occasionally? You may come across as sorted and not really needing to be more part of the group.

have you tried being a bit more explicit and saying to one woman you relat well to 'I'm feeling quite lonely since we moved, it's hard to make new friends and break into new groups.' Most people can relate to this feeling will be sympathetic and respond.

you need to be taken under someone wing for a while, but maybe they don't realise that. Most people are busy thinking about themsleves you know, and often don'tnotice others inclusion or not.

I think it depends on the vibes you're picking up from the group.

If you think they've genuinely forgotten to ask you then I would continue to try and get to know them.

If you think there is a bit of an atmosphere or they're mucking you about I would remain polite to them (for your DD's benefit) but not expect anything from them.

Next time they say "oh we must ask you next time" why not say "oh when is next time? Who is arranging it?" Sometimes you need to get the ball rolling yourself rather than always waiting for it. Alternatively,try and find out how they hear about the invite. Is it via text or facebook for instance? If so you can then pass out your mobile number to the group or friend them on facebook.

Duffy Have you ever used www.sitters.co.uk ? I have been very pleased with the sitters I have used through this (not on commission, honest...) - I just wondered if there's a pub quiz or something you and your DP can go to on a night out and make some of your own friends. When I started using sitters I had one person come out and play with my DS while I was in the house doing stuff so DS got to know her and then I could feel better that if he woke when she was sitting for him he would known who she was (I have everything to thank this woman for, she was the one who got DS to sleep through for the first time - we were co-sleeping badly and she put him in his cot and I realised neither of us slept because I snored too much!)

Perhaps you are coming over a bit diffident? Next time they offer to invite you, pin them down - wave your diary and say "oh I have my diary on me, what's the date? What are we doing?" Just be a bit more pushy about details.

Unless you don't want to of course.

Re; the babysitting - I think that actually they all want to be kind to you and be seen to be kind to you - but perhaps they really have other things that are higher priority, so it seems like a nice offer for them to make but utterly impractical.

But OTOH, they might just be being shallow - nice to your face but not much underneath.

I hope you manage to make some real friends soon. :)

tricky one this: my gut feeling, based on my own experience of moving to small(ish) towns is that they probably aren't aware that they are doing this. I think people who've known each other since the year dot have a hard time conceiving of what its like to be a newcomer or an outsider they just don't get that it can be isolating and alienating that they all know each other super well. I would think that if you continue to be polite and low key with them they will probably eventually come around to you and start asking you out they need to psychologically get their heads around you, so to speak. On the other hand if there is a slightly bitchy undertone then it is possible that they are taking the piss and acting out insecurities based on small-mindedness to exclude you. But I doubt it -- most people just aren't that macchiavellian.

My feeling would be just carry on with them as you have been doing, don't lose your temper or show any reaction at all, meanwhile try to make friends outside this circle. If they do want to be friends they will eventually come through, if they are just twats then probably best to let it slide gradually without a drama.

Things might change when you meet some new people when DD starts school. I'm always wary of people who are overly friendly to start with. I find it's where friendships develop slowly that they're longer lasting, so don't beat yourself up about this. I'm sure there are other people you can make friends with - you've just not met them yet.

I would stop worrying and don't treat these friendships as serious. Say hello and be polite when you see them, but don't worry about taking things further. One suggestion is, do you have any of their numbers, mabey you could arrange for one or two to come for tea/coffee. If they let you down again just let it go. You will make plenty of other friends.

I agree with Scholes34 - I bet things will change when DD starts school - once she starts to make her own friends (and so do all the other children the same age) there will be less of the group toddler stuff anyway, and you will end up naturally meeting the parents of children in her class in ones or twos, where you can find out who you get on with. My younger DD is 13 now, and several of my best friends had children in her class when she was 5 - in most cases she isn't even that friendly with the children any more, but the mothers still get on very well! I think a lot of friendships of pre-school are based on the stuff common to all parents of toddlers, and people do tend to move on anyway as the children grow up and go their different ways a bit.

journey they organise everything via text message and they all have my numbers.

mordechai you may have something there - my long term friends think of me as being more confident than I do.

hell you're right it is the disingenuousness that hacks me off.

I have given one of the other mum's who isn't part of the group my number and suggested a night out which she had said she'd be interested in so we'll see.

Thanks everyone for your kind words - I've always found MN to be very supportive. To the others who've had the same experiences I hope things improve.

if they say oh you should have asked if you wanted a babysitter, just say i did and i got let down

IME it takes a good 2 years to set up friendship groups. I moved to a village when my dd1 was 9 months old and made a few 'friendships' with other mothers at music classes/toddler groups. However nights out/help with babysitting did take a lot longer to work out. Now she is 8 and dd2 is 5 I know many more people and funnily enough they are all from the local city or other villages!

I think that it just takes time-it is thoughtlessness more than anything. They know each other well and no one is in charge, they probably haven't considered what it is like to be a newcomer. Just keep being friendly, but don't expect a lot.