to expect kids to better behaved at my house?

[whethergirl]

A friend pops over occassionally with her 2 kids but I just find it so chaotic when they are here and wonder if I'm expecting too much for 5 year olds or whether mum should reign them in a bit? Ds is ok usually but also sometimes breaks certain house rules when they are here. Behaviour includes:

Keep hassling the dog when I can see he's had enough despite repeated requests

Leaving dog biscuits in little piles on the floor to feed dog - when asked not to countless times on previous visits

Not taking off wet shoes that have been in rain when coming in from garden - when asked not to few minutes previously

Continously going into my bedroom when explained it's out of bounds

Rifling though the kitchen cupboards rather than ask me when they want a snack

Not EVER helping or offering to help tidy up toys after visit when toys left all over house

Using bed as trampoline

To use my clean hair towel (only clean one left!) to wipe wet trampoline without asking

Shouting "NO!!" when I say something like "Can you please leave the dog alone now"

I do like her kids, they are very lively and make me laugh a lot, and I'm glad they feel comfortable in my house, but feel they should be taught to have a bit more respect when in someone elses house?

My DD was the same perfumed, wanted people/friends to come round, but wanted them to go after about an hour so she could do what she wanted and have some head space.

I think it's good to be able to amuse yourself, stands you in good stead so you don't have to rely on other people

I think so too AgentZigzag, or at least, will keep telling myself that

OP, who snatched a bra?

perfumedlife that is so out of order. I would have been mortified if my ds had done that in someone elses home and I would have offered to pay for a new rug.

'And then when she did finally leave, she snatched a bra on her way out which the dog was seen sporting later.....'

Can I ask you what that bit means but

Aww - thank you perfumedlife for the compliment (I think!! ) I know I'm a grumpy old hag woman but I like to stick my oar in!!

No! Not sarky atall. I read your posts and am sure you have been reading my mind. Only I'm never quick enough to think it first.

Carry on carrying on I say.

Grumpy child who was being forced to leave my bedroom, snatched my bra (which was on the bed - not on me) on her way out and I couldn't be bothered to tell her to put it back after the whole "please leave my bedroom" saga. 5 minutes later, poor dog was wondering around the house with the bra on!

The mother is being a little bit out of order because she is merrily letting you be the fall guy by cooing and explaining your reasons to the child. There needn't be any reason, other than you said so.

Loads of mums out there creating monsters for tomorrow.

LOL @perfumed - I'm not in your head - just been around the block a few times.

whethergirl - a dog in a bra. Well I never!
On a serious note - next time the little blighters darlings come round set 'em straight the minute they arrive:
Rule 1 - Stay downstairs
Rule 2 - Leave the dog alone
Rule 3 - No bed jumping
...... etc. etc.....
Clearly set out the consequences - so make sure you have appropriate consequences for 5 year olds up your sleeve. I can't actually remember mine as it's too long ago but suffice to say I never had this sort of shit going on in my house.
If the other Mum doesn't like it then tough. She can sling her hook along with her kids.

The solution is that you pick the child up and remove them from the situation. Seriously. If they were in my bedroom I would ask them politely but ffirmly once to get out, then if they didn't I would gently but firmly pick them up and move them. Same with the dog thing - I would tell them to leave him alone once, if they didn't I would pick the child up and put them in another room. I will not habe rude badly behaved children and their parents in my house!

Try practising the phrase, 'In our house, the rule is........' and use it regularly. My son's likttle friend constantly pushes the boundaries but he knows that when he's here then he needs to be respectful of how things are done here or he goes home...................

If the mum just keep negating everything, tell the child off once and next time say to her that you've already told the child the house rule, could she please ensure her child doesn't do x,y, or z.

Not a comfy situation, but if you don't say anything now, you will one day have a huge row and not be friends anymore methinks.....

YANBU at all, this is really unacceptable behaviour and beyond rude to shout "no" at you when you've asked them to do/not to do something. Don't get me wrong, my DD often yells "no" at me/DH, but has never done that to another adult. She knows she has to be polite and behave well in other people's homes or it's home time immediately. These children sound like they have no respect for their mother or anyone else.

DH's goddaughter is like this. Every time she goes to anyone's house she causes chaos and breaks things. Not just small things/toys either, I'm talking about home furnishings she shouldn't even be touching, and in one case, a friend's new wooden floor which she managed to batter with her scooter (which she'd been asked to not play with inside, to no avail. DH won't have her in our house and I know her godmother can't stand her either, which is pretty sad as they will never have that godparent/godchild relationship one hopes for. Her parents are convinced she's some sort of exceptionally gifted wunderkind and never give her any boundaries. They also think the rest of us are uptight and need to chill out a bit. They applied that same thought process to the "ninny" child at school Dh's goddaughter was pulled up for bullying.....

I am incompatible, in some ways, with some mums.

Which I think is fairly normal, we can't really expect to see eye to eye with all of the people, all the time, in all of their\our roles.

With the mums who are more or less on the same page as me, we do "in each others houses" meetups.

With the mums I like ASIDE FROM than the constant irritation (probably for both of us) of contrasting parenting styles\expectations, I tend to meet in the park rather than our houses. In a couple of cases I go as far as meeting them for a kid free catch up when our kids are playing together at youth club. Because I like their company and I don't want either of us to end up spending our time together irritated or put out cos we have a parental style clash.

The mums I don't like, regardless of how they parent, I just stay away from, cos life is just too short. There are a couple of friends of my son that he only sees at youth club\sports club etc because as much as he likes them, I cannot bear their mother, and since I already do a fair old bit of compromising I don't think it is too much to ask that I get the occasional veto. In fact I am not sure the kiddie friendship would survive if the mums concerned were pushed together constantly, rubbing each other up the wrong way.

I think it might be worth having a think about whether your friendship with this mum is compatible with "in each others houses" meet ups or if an alternative environment would suit better, like maybe soft play, or the park.

Cos I am willing to bet that neither of you came away from this last visit feeling good about it and it would be a shame to lose a connection because meeting in the "wrong" environment meant it couldn't flourish.

Wish I'd never read this thread, I've got my other friend's evil spawn coming next weekend, I'm going out to buy padlocks.

fastweb that works as far as new friends are concerned - ie, people you are only friends with through your children. And I think your approach is very sensible.

However, my problem is with longstanding friends' kids, people I've known for years pre marriage/children. It's pretty hard to convert those friendships to "park only" ones - although that's how things have ended up with DH's goddaughter. It means we can't have get togethers at our house with all DH's group of longstanding friends and their kids because Dh doesn't want this child in our house; but he doesn't want to be seen as marginalising her and her parents either.

I also think there's "not seeing eye to eye" on parenting styles and then there's condoning or ignoring really rude and, in some cases, destructive, behaviour. Basic courtesy and respect should transcend different parenting styles.

You need to develop the Voice and the Look. The Look is for your DS so that it isn't obvious that he is included in the discipline when things go too far, but he gets the message.
The Voice is for the other children. You can still be polite when reminding them that they are not allowed in the bedroom/to jump on beds/to torment the dog/feed him biscuits, but it brooks absolutely no discussion. If they try, you repeat until the message penetrates. (Try and channel a really scary teacher from your youth).
It won't make for a restful visit, but after a couple of times they should start respecting your rules in your house.
Alternatively, go to their house.
It's always harder when the visitor has more children than you do.

However, my problem is with longstanding friends' kids

I have to admit I have no "ongoing experience" with that. My single pre child friendship that initially survived my becoming a mum went down in flames because she got pregnant as a reaction to my getting pregnant.

Once the kids actually arrived, her taking to mummy Olympics like a duck to water and going for gold really focused for me that I didn't actually like her very much because she based her self image on putting other people down. It reveal that our friendship had been based more on the slim foundation of a common language\culture, rather than something more substantial like really liking each other. After that became apparent the cracks were too deep to really feel the need to try and salvage something and I opted out.

I also think there's "not seeing eye to eye" on parenting styles and then there's condoning or ignoring really rude and, in some cases, destructive, behavior. Basic courtesy and respect should transcend different parenting styles.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

I am probably on your page, parental style\standards speaking.

But I know pleanty of mothers who regard me as "coercive" and perceive their parenting as the right way to avoid causing long term and profound damage to their future free thinkers. They are of the opinion that my son is being groomed for "being a worker ant, mindlessly accepting all that authority tells him to do".

I don't agree with them at all, but the reality is they have very different lines in the sand to me and simply don't see it as something as black and white as condoning rude or destructive behavior and a lack of courtesy and respect.

Fastweb "perceive their parenting as the right way to avoid causing long term and profound damage to their future free thinkers" is my friend down to a T!

Yes, I think that's what it boils down to, is the different parenting styles. But I think mums do need to be sensitive to this - although it can be very tricky. I have some very good friends, some I've know since teenage years, and then all of a sudden you have kids and realise how different you are. Similarly, for some people (like this particular friend) I am too strict, but other friends have thought I am too lax. And I obviously think I'm just right because that's the way I choose to parent!

Yes, I definitely do prefer to meet up outside of home, it's much easier. But difficulties can still occur. For example, I really don't think it's ok for my friend's dd to call my ds "stupid" (it's always said in a vicious angry manner) I would not allow my ds to call another child stupid, so it's not really fair on my ds if I let another child call him stupid. I normally say something like "Ds, you are not stupid, but can you let your friend have a go now".

The mum does this thing of trying to reprimand them, but gives too much room for the dd's to find a way out IMO. And the reason I haven't employed further tactics (like physically remove child from bedroom or using 'the voice') because I don't want to upset or fall out with the mum, she's a good friend. But then come to think of it, I'm now the one who is a bit upset that she is not making her kids have a bit of respect in my house.

I have, in front of the mum, sat her dd's down in front of me and said "Look, I really don't like you keep going in my bedroom and I don't like having to keep telling you to come out. Can you please promise me not to do it anymore?" And they nod and promise, and their mum says "yes, listen to whethergirl". Then 5 mins later they're back in there.

I think I would be at the point that I dont invite this family around at all. have a long break, and when you do invite them back, explain the house rules.

I hate obnoxious rude ill mannered kids who think they can behave inappropriately and I dont care if their parents think it is ok. If I dont allow my own children to do something, then I dont expect other kids to do it. If they do, they are asked politely not to do it again. When they ignore me I now talk to the parents.

There is no point continuing a friendship with the adult either if their presence causes too much stress and angst. It shouldnt matter how their children behave in their own home, all children should be taught to respect the house rules of the home they are visiting.

At 5 he is still young, but if this isnt sorted now, he will just get worse. What is he like at school for following rules?

From your intitial list, it looks like they have not been taught any kind of respect or manners so wont know they are doing anything wrong.

As time has gone by, I have got harder and dont allow children to misbehave in my home. If they do, they dont come back.

If you really have to have them in your house, put a lock on your bedroom door - no more arguments. YANBU, their behaviour sounds totally unacceptable (and there is no way they would be invited round my house) but if the friendship is important to you then trying to minimize the flashpoints is probably the easiest way. One of the best days of my life was when we moved into a house with a downstairs loo and playroom - visiting kids were never allowed upstairs again.

Oh its awfull isnt it? I used to have avery close friend who let her kids run riot in my house,eg baby cruising around my new sofa with jammy toast or ripping up dd's books.After years of "nagging" and feeling petty she called me one evening to say what a lovely restfull Sunday she had had,i snapped and said i was pleased for her cos i had been picking toast out of the toybox and washing greasy marks off my walls following their visit.I then said this cant go on anymore your kids are ruining my home and i cant afford to replace it all.She was very apologetic and understanding and things improved. The problem is some Mums find it easy to relax or be lax in other peoples homes cos they arent the ones who pick up the pieces after,i think an honest conversation is needed here.
"look,i feel bad saying this but im finding it a bit stressfull and a lot of work to tidy up when you have gone/stuff is getting ruined"

Must admit im currently on my 5th baby-22wks old,and with each one i have had less and less of these type of visits.I tend to take them out to socialise or am working so they socialise at nursery.

Sounds Hard work
what does the parent do?

OP I would have a long calm talk to the mum. Especially about the dog, FGS what happens if he snaps (which would be understandable). Can you crate him or put him out? Otherwise I would meet at the park. I've had to do this with a friend as her children run riot here and I find it too stressful.

And agree with other posters about your bedroom - I'd say no out now. Right now and or physically lift them out. I can't stand it.

I would never put up with this in my own home. And do not think this is appropriate behaviour for children of that age. They obviously get away with murder at home. You need to put your foot down. Maybe you could start suggesting you meet at a neutral place... ? HOPEFULLY your friend will get the hint... by the sounds of it though her kids can do no wrong :(

She SHOULD be saying 'ds, do not behave like this in wg's home, this is her house and you follow her house rules'.

The kids AND friend are being disrespectful toward your generosity of being a host.