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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

for not declaring my earnings for tax purposes

120 replies

sneakylady · 17/06/2011 17:43

I have a very small business and do cash in hand work a few hours a week and earn £30 - £60 a week, no more, so not exactly a fortune. I have been doing it about 6 months, it comes in handy. dh works, doesn't earn loads, about 23k, we have two little DC. we use it towards the food bill usually.

And I have NO intention of declaring it as it will screw up our already measly tax credits. In fact, I actually feel quite smug for doing it, as we get screwed enough in this country and have every last drop of money squeezed out of us in petrol prices, gas and electric food prices, property prices etc so why shouldn't we keep something for us?

my intention is to slowly build my business then when both DC are at school I will go "legit" and declare it all. AIBU?

OP posts:

katz · 17/06/2011 22:00

shine - but it is our business, i pay taxes and the OP is taking them when she not entitled too, thats my money so my business.

emmanumber3 · 17/06/2011 22:00

I mean never paid tax on my eBay activity - I have worked for most of my adult life & paid tax on that!

jimswifein1964 · 17/06/2011 22:15

What, if like shiney says, you're cleaning for someone at home? Well, for £4 an hour or whatever, are you really going to register and declare it? You wouldnt be paying tax on that amount (unless cleaning 24/7!)

Altho personally, not even cash in hand would tempt me to clean anything!

legallyblond · 17/06/2011 22:16

As others have said, you wouldn't pay a penny of tax - you're waaay under your personal allowance. I am a bit ott about tax issues as I am a tax lawyer, but honestly, this is totally idiotic. Declare, be honest, and you won't pay any tax anyway. Re your tax credits, that's a pity (if correct) but..... you can't honestly expect people to think you are being reasonable!!!??? You are legally required to file a tax return even if you have no tax to pay - you could incur penalties and/or fines for failing to do this even though you had no tax to pay in the first place (totally depends whose desk it lands on in HMRC - some inspectors are more harsh than others). Why would you do something illegal for the sake of £10 a week? I know HMRC isn't the most lovable institution but tax is something we all have to pay, if we earn over a certain amount, and that is what pays for crucial services that we all enjoy (NHS being prime example) and, in a round about way, is what is paying for your tax credits! given you are so far under the personal allowance threshold anyway and it is only a (really quite generous) credit you would be missing out on, I suggest you stop being a cheat! I have to say I can understand others' anger - being smug does feel like pickpocketing the rest of us and feeling good about it!!!

MrsWembley · 17/06/2011 22:39

I'm with every one here who hopes you get caught. It's one thing to do it if you're trying to get out of the benefits trap, as someone has already mentioned, but you aren't, this is theft and not from the government, it's from the workers I get really fucked off with people going on about the government does this to us and the government screws us out of that so I'm going to screw them. You aren't you know, you're screwing your friends and neighbours who work their fucking arses off to try to improve this country. So screw you. Why don't you try to help the rest of us instead of just saying I'm alright Jack, sod you.

poorbuthappy · 17/06/2011 22:46

I started a very small business this year. I am way under the tax threshold and will be for probably another 2 years at least.
But I registered as self-employed, opted out of NI for this year, because in 3 years time (when all kids at school) I want to be earning enough money to pay tax because that means I will be earning more money!

Also the 3 months thingy earlier up the thread for registering as self employed is wrong. It used to be a grace period between setting up and registering, but it was never actually a set in stone thing. It no longer applies.

SarfEasticated · 17/06/2011 23:03

My problem with this is that you are doing something in secret.
What if your children find out and you have to tell them to keep quiet or lie on your behalf?
That would make me really uneasy.

Also if you want to run a business later on, why not start now, get it all legit and then you will have the 3 years of accounts banks want from you if you want to get a mortgage, or get a business loan.

jimswifein1964 · 17/06/2011 23:04

I'm fairly sure it still says the 3 months thing on the HMCR website?
Poorbuthappy, could you give a 1 liner explanation of opting out of NI? Wondering if i'd be better doing that than paying class 2 (is it 2?) when i go over the threshold? Can you tell I'm crap?

Isitreally · 17/06/2011 23:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sunshineandbooks · 17/06/2011 23:14

Well you are definitely completely bonkers for declaring this on MN!

Is it a windup?

I have some sympathy for your situation cos it seems the harder you try the more you lose, but you do know that someone will get the hump and try to report you to HMRC via your username and ISP?

xstitch · 17/06/2011 23:18

I'm sorry but YABU. I have only 12hr per week job. I did some work to cover a friends MW and hospital appointments. Over the whole year I earned approximately £160. I still declared it.

I once made a mistake on a VAT return. An idiotic arithmetical error which meant that bill for my boss was 1p short. Did they add that 1p onto the next bill and see it for what it was? No they sent a letter saying they were doing a full audit and I may gain a criminal conviction for fraud Scared the life out of me. Never try and trick the HMRC.

upahill · 17/06/2011 23:24

Don't get why you want to come on here and brag tbh

It's not really a AIBU is it because you don't want people's opinions.

You either want to gloat
or you are a troll and want a reaction.

So at the end of that I don't give a toss either way!

Morloth · 17/06/2011 23:34

Look, I think a little bit of a black economy is important for a country/people it isn't healthy to be all totally law abiding and do as your told.

I would never grass someone up because I am an Aussie and being a dobber is a bit more of a crime than working cash in hand for pennies.

However do not complain if this comes back to bite you on the arse and anyone with even half a brain should be able to guess that crowing about it is a bloody stupid thing to do.

Tryharder · 17/06/2011 23:47

Oh for God's sake. There are wealthy individuals and large companies out there who do everything possible to avoid paying tax. I have a friend who used to work for DSS fraud and the stuff that goes on is unbelievable. Benefit fraud in this country costs us millions. The OP is not claiming DLA or IS and yet working on the side. She's a housewife trying to make a little extra to feed and clothe her kids.

I cannot believe the level of vitriol on this thread - how bitter and twisted do some of you sound?? Because the OP doesn't pay tax on 40 quid which she probably wouldn't have to pay anyway as it's below the personal allowance, she gets called a cunt? I mean, come on, perspective please.

Do you all think all these big companies and hugely wealthy individuals are paying 40% of their total income to the Government? Are they fuck!

OP, YANBU. I hope you don't get caught.

xstitch · 17/06/2011 23:50

Vitriol? Most people are just saying you can't trick the HMRC. Two wrongs don'r make a right. while I agree that you are worse of for being honest I would rather be honest any day.

Clytaemnestra · 18/06/2011 06:59

"Benefit fraud in this country costs us millions."

She's not declaring cash in hand in order to maintain her benefits though. That IS benefit fraud. Tax credits are benefits.

garlicnutter · 18/06/2011 07:12

tryharder, income tax won't be due on such a small income. It's the fact that she's determined to screw the extra £10 out of Tax Credits that's offensive.

shineoncrazydiam0nd · 18/06/2011 07:50

Katz - I view that some woman earning 30 odd quid a week on the quiet is NOT my business. I don't give a toss. And I certainly wouldn't be on the phone to HMRC.

However, what I find offensive is the brag on here. Seems very odd indeed.

mollymole · 18/06/2011 08:23

if you are real i really, really hope you get screwed by HMRC for not declaring you are in business (it is an offense not to decalre you have started self-employment) AND that you are prosecuted for STEALING benefits

you take our taxed income for your benefits yet do not declare all your income - YOU ARE A THIEF AND A LIAR

Llanarth · 18/06/2011 08:43

jimswifein1964 you can only opt out of paying class 2 NI via a small earnings exception certificate (so would need to be earning less than £5315 pa).

Even if you are eligible for this, you'd be advised to voluntarily pay class 2 contributions if you plan to have a baby, as paying class 2's mean you'd get approx £125 a week in maternity allowance whereas having a small earnings certificate means you'd get approx £27 a week. Take a look at this article here if you are at all in the babymaking way...

businessplusbaby.com/2010/09/08/self-employed-protect-your-right-to-maternity-allowance/

OP: YABU.

Original poster

sneakylady · 18/06/2011 08:51

Sorry everyone

It was a wind-up, as lots of people suspected. And I think I went too far, and its gone too far now so I am going to contact MN and ask for the thread to be pulled.

Sorry again.

OP posts:

Acekicker · 18/06/2011 09:04

Why?

I call bollocks - you posted, we didn't all go 'hurrah for sneaky bucking the evil system, you go stick it to the nasty government' instead a lot of people rightly called you out on being a deceitful fraud with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and now you want the thread pulled as you don't like what you heard...

clemetteattlee · 18/06/2011 09:05

Hmm, convenient that. Not sure if the HMRC are that keen on "faked" fraud either.

jimswifein1964 · 18/06/2011 09:17

Llanarth thank you. I'm way under the £5135, but neither am I ever going to have another baby or anything like that . sO am I better opting out or not? Its only a very small amount of NI, but on the other hand, if I can opt to not pay for something that wont really benefit me, maybe I should? I had a huge NI gap while I was busy having kids.

Llanarth · 18/06/2011 09:32

Jimswifein1964 - I'll reply quickly before this thread gets pulled! Can't really advise - I know the class 2's do go towards the second state pension so it might be worth you paying them, depends on the age of your kids (my understanding is that if you are in receipt of child benefit your pension contributions are automatically paid by the govt anyway, so you don't lose out - I've opted out for that reason) But if your kids are grown and gone then you might want to pay class 2's to boost your pension. Best take proper advice - CAB?

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