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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that 'tolerance' has gone too far

191 replies

AKMD · 17/06/2011 12:20

I am wearing a hard hat ready to be flamed...

I came across an article in a religious magazine and I felt that it really defined my confusion about the line between being tolerant and standing up for morality. This is a quote from it:

"Until recently in our national history, tolerance referred to racial and religious non-discrimination. It meant civility in the political arena; in other words, respecting the right of others to express their views, even if we do not agree with them. It meant treating all people with decency and respect...

Today, however, the world is in danger of abandoning all sense of absolute right or wrong, all morality and virtue, replacing them with an all-encompassing ?tolerance? that no longer means what it once meant. An extreme definition of tolerance is now widespread that implicitly or explicitly endorses the right of every person to choose their own morality, even their own ?truth,? as though morality and truth were mere matters of personal preference. This extreme tolerance culminates in a refusal to recognize any fixed standards or draw moral distinctions of any kind. Few dare say no to the ?almighty self? or suggest that some so-called ?lifestyles? may be destructive, contrary to higher law, or simply wrong.

When tolerance is so inflated out of all proportions, it means the death of virtue, for the essence of morality is to draw clear distinctions between right and wrong. All virtue requires saying no firmly and courageously to all that is morally bankrupt.

Curiously enough, this new modern tolerance is often a one-way street. Those who practice it expect everyone to tolerate them in anything they say or do, but show no tolerance themselves toward those who express differing viewpoints or defend traditional morality. Indeed, their intolerance is often most barbed toward those of religious conviction... Believers of all faiths have every right to participate in and share their convictions in the public arena."

The whole article is here under the article " Defending the Family".

I've really noticed on MN that anyone who suggests that certain lifestyle choices might actually be wrong gets flamed for being judgemental and intolerant, when in fact those choices are root causes of family breakdown and wider negative impacts on wider society. AIBU to think that there is a limit to tolerance in that it should protect the integrity of our society, not seek to make it ok for everyone to do whatever they want?

OP posts:
Punkatheart · 18/06/2011 15:41

Yes the anger thing is a niggling one with me. I have never found a way to submerge it completely. I once went to attend a one-to-one meditation with a buddhist priest. When I got to his house - it was a long and hot journey - he did not answer the door. I was so angry and frustrated and just rang that bell, feeling the fury build up inside me. Of course the hilarity and irony of getting angry at a buddhist's house did strike me later!

But I love your take on things. Quakerism has constantly drawn me because of the lovely thinking people I meet.

Have you ever considered having a collect at your house. I know some people who can not attend have had this organised.

Yes I drink and yes I swear too. So you are not alone. You have a lot to deal with - you deserve an outlet!

Peachy · 18/06/2011 15:45

I need to make contact more I know; it's something very much on my to do list.

LOL at the Buddhist / Anger thing. I specialised in Buddhism for part of my degree so that tickles!

Trouble is I get angry at people who think it's OK to target the kids. politically that's quite common atm. you can swear at me all you want and I will away; start on my boys and I don't manage to stay nice as long as I would wish.

But I am working on it.

Many people have it far worse than us; I have my boys, my DH, a roof.... that's pretty good.

Tyr · 18/06/2011 16:22

Punkatheart Sat 18-Jun-11 13:00:05

"Yes, some Quakers (namely the Plymouth Brethren) dress in black and white - use thee and thou quite quaintly. Others are fiery little atheists/agonists like myself who nevertheless want some sense of spirituality, rather than the constraints of organised religion. Kindness and tolerance can be sneered at in our tough society but they don't half make the world a nicer place!"

Punkat heart, the Plymouth Brethren aren't Quakers- they are an extreme and closed sect of the "Brethren"
Perhaps there is some historical connection but they are about as far removed from the Quaker ethos as you could get.

Punkatheart · 18/06/2011 17:56

Yes you are right Tyr. My stupidity. They do have some similar ways of worship but are of course not Quakers. I think the confusion is that a number of Quakers joined the Brethren..

I stand humbled and corrected.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 18:08

We have some closed brethren people living in our town.

Tyr · 18/06/2011 18:44

Punkatheart Sat 18-Jun-11 17:56:48

Yes you are right Tyr. My stupidity. They do have some similar ways of worship but are of course not Quakers. I think the confusion is that a number of Quakers joined the Brethren..

I stand humbled and corrected.

Don't feel humbled and corrected, Punkatheart. I think you would feel distinctly uncomfortable among the Brethren. According to them, you're going to hell.

Punkatheart · 18/06/2011 19:52

Oh dear. Oh well, I am fond of heat.

Peachy · 18/06/2011 20:02

Ah you see I thought I missed something with teh Brethren; I did grow up in a Brethren town (NOT Plymouth) but whilst we were all friends in the way children are, there were limits to how close friends we could be. Mind that was many years ago now.

SegmentationFault · 25/04/2018 20:58

It's an LDS magazine, they probably think tolerance went too far with the passing of the sexual offences act in 1967.

LakieLady · 25/04/2018 21:22

Going out to get drunk on a Friday night is something that is widely accepted in society but it is very clearly wrong.

"Wrong" is a value judgment. It may be "clearly wrong" in your eyes, but who's to say your values take precedence over anyone else's?

Unless someone is doing something that harms others, everyone should be entitled to act according to their own values imo, but not to impose those values on others.

I have no problem with people going out to get bladdered, as long as they don't end up in A&E, puke all over the place, don't drive when they're pissed and aren't aggressive or abusive with it. I do object to people fiddling their taxes though, because that has an adverse impact on the rest of us.

I don't really give a toss what values anyone has as long as they don't try and use them in a way that impacts on the rest of us who may not share them.

bookworm14 · 25/04/2018 21:25

This thread is from 2011!!

Schnauzermum2 · 25/04/2018 21:37

I think the piece makes a very valid point about people expecting tolerance towards their choices but don’t afford the same tolerances to other people’s views and beliefs. There’s a growing rush of selective liberalism. It’s the new flag to get behind in an attempt to belong to something. Demanding certain things are accepted whilst at the same time censoring other people’s views. The trouble is that by embracing one set of views and rejecting others one set of discrimination is replaced by another. Pressure groups have pushed their agenda at the expense of true tolerance of individualism. I would say that we live in the most overetly tolerant society ever at the price of true tolerance.

SegmentationFault · 26/04/2018 12:49

I'd rather live in an 'overly tolerant' society than one where the Mormon church decided on what is allowed.

Wickerman11 · 16/02/2019 14:32

@AKMD

From that same magazine:

"Parents need to know that lack of proper affection in the home can result in unnatural behavior in their children such as homosexuality."

And

"It is of great concern to all who understand this glorious concept that Satan and his cohorts are using scientific arguments and nefarious propaganda to lure women away from their primary responsibilities as wives, mothers, and homemakers."

Do you really get your morality from ensign fucking magazine?

malificent7 · 16/02/2019 22:24

Well i can tolerate the existence if other races living in my town. I can tolerate sex before marriage ( very enjoyable tbh). What i cannot tolerate are bidoted idiots spouting rubbish on the internet and blaming foreigners, gays and single mums for the ills of society.

malificent7 · 16/02/2019 22:25

Bigeted sorry!

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