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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that 'tolerance' has gone too far

191 replies

AKMD · 17/06/2011 12:20

I am wearing a hard hat ready to be flamed...

I came across an article in a religious magazine and I felt that it really defined my confusion about the line between being tolerant and standing up for morality. This is a quote from it:

"Until recently in our national history, tolerance referred to racial and religious non-discrimination. It meant civility in the political arena; in other words, respecting the right of others to express their views, even if we do not agree with them. It meant treating all people with decency and respect...

Today, however, the world is in danger of abandoning all sense of absolute right or wrong, all morality and virtue, replacing them with an all-encompassing ?tolerance? that no longer means what it once meant. An extreme definition of tolerance is now widespread that implicitly or explicitly endorses the right of every person to choose their own morality, even their own ?truth,? as though morality and truth were mere matters of personal preference. This extreme tolerance culminates in a refusal to recognize any fixed standards or draw moral distinctions of any kind. Few dare say no to the ?almighty self? or suggest that some so-called ?lifestyles? may be destructive, contrary to higher law, or simply wrong.

When tolerance is so inflated out of all proportions, it means the death of virtue, for the essence of morality is to draw clear distinctions between right and wrong. All virtue requires saying no firmly and courageously to all that is morally bankrupt.

Curiously enough, this new modern tolerance is often a one-way street. Those who practice it expect everyone to tolerate them in anything they say or do, but show no tolerance themselves toward those who express differing viewpoints or defend traditional morality. Indeed, their intolerance is often most barbed toward those of religious conviction... Believers of all faiths have every right to participate in and share their convictions in the public arena."

The whole article is here under the article " Defending the Family".

I've really noticed on MN that anyone who suggests that certain lifestyle choices might actually be wrong gets flamed for being judgemental and intolerant, when in fact those choices are root causes of family breakdown and wider negative impacts on wider society. AIBU to think that there is a limit to tolerance in that it should protect the integrity of our society, not seek to make it ok for everyone to do whatever they want?

OP posts:
Peachy · 17/06/2011 16:24

The frocks are cool but I am too busy making Hmm faces at the article about how great it is to tithe your income to the Church.

Hullygully · 17/06/2011 16:25

I like mom's modest clothing sacrifice...

Peachy · 17/06/2011 16:27

And the one about Nan living prudently and how they '(lovingly) divided up' the pots and pans.

I've witnessed people dividing up belongings post death: lovingly doesn't usually describe it!

Covetously more like.

Tyr · 17/06/2011 16:40

I've witnessed people dividing up belongings post death: lovingly doesn't usually describe it!

Covetously more like.

Violently sometimes- I've witnessed that. Peachy, did you say you were a Quaker or have I confused you with someone else?

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 16:45

Hully What are those men in the white dresses doing to that man's hair?

I think it is a luxury woodland Shampoo & Set (luxury because six hands are better than two)

garlicnutter · 17/06/2011 16:46

Hully, the speech bubbles are missing from that image.

White Frock on Left: "It's a little greasy, we should use a lemon shampoo"
Middle White Frock: "Dry on the ends, though, perhaps a conditioning treatment?"
Woman in White Frock: "Cut it all off!"

Kneeling Man: "Will I be waiting much longer? My appoitment was 15 minutes ago."
Crouching Man: "This costs 10% of my income? You gotta be joking!"

garlicnutter · 17/06/2011 16:47

x-post, HellAW Grin

Snorbs · 17/06/2011 16:52

I reckon if you graphed the decline in influence of the church(es) in the UK against the rise in acceptance of other races, homosexuals etc over the last 50 years or so, the lines would be a perfect mirror image.

But I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 16:54

Ha ha Garlic....insane great minds think alike! Grin

Judging by the hat he's been wearing he's needed a visit to the woodland hairdressers for quite some time.

LDNmummy · 17/06/2011 16:54

LDNMummy

Who exactly are you talking about when you say "Society is moving forward, away from conformism" and "We are moving away from that, why would we want to go back exactly?"

Pendeen

Well I mean exactly what I said, that society is moving away from the more conformist elements of the past in regards to the OP's examples of what was considered positive conformism by previous generations.

Obviously this does not mean we have gotten to the point where all traditions are firmly behind us, just that people are more assertive and in control over their own lives now.

I am not talking about things like fashion, more things like the nuclear family structure. That is why I gave the example of women who used to stay in abusive relationships lest they be scorned for going through a divorce. It is far more acceptable now for a woman to assert her right to live free of abuse and divorce if she feels it is a better option to staying in the relationship.

People are freer now to make choices to their own benefit without others constantly telling them they are in the wrong because the choice they are making somehow affects the delicate balance that keeps society harmonious. Why would we want to regress back to a society where if I as a woman chose to wear trousers for instance, or have sex before marraige, I was considered unfit to socialise with because someone had decided it was unacceptable behaviour of a woman?

I don't know if I am being clearer now, I am just saying that we are moving into a new stage of social development where people are more able to excercise autonomy over their own lives without fear of judgement from society at large.

Hullygully · 17/06/2011 16:56

I want my hair done by three men in a woodland glade

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 16:57

Also look at the lustrous locks and beardy beauty of the hairdressers (bar one none-beardy one) - are they the BeeGees? In which case 10% is cheap at the price.

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 17/06/2011 16:59

Nice to see you're firmly focused on the issues Hully Grin

LDNmummy · 17/06/2011 16:59

Oh sorry obviously I meant the 'west', I was assuming we were talking about Britain.

And actually many foreign states who adopted the west's idea of an appropriate social structure at various times during the colonial era.

Hullygully · 17/06/2011 17:00

I am Puffin, it's all about the hair. God gives good hair.

garlicnutter · 17/06/2011 17:06

*HellAW", even Lulu couldn't manage to get her hair done by the Bee Gees! She had to marry one and then the other. Mind you, they did look somewhat similar.

Is John Frieda the missing Mormon Bee Gee?

Lunabelly · 17/06/2011 17:13

You do realise that we are very naughty and are going to hell? :o

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 17:16

Luna Am reminded of that Beck song "The Devil's Haircut"! It will be terrible. Devil's haircut will not be as good and we will all be doomed to have slightly greasy, lank, volumeless, flyaway hair for ever more.

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 17:17

garlic Not John Frieda - 'tis Nicky Clarke. Surely you noticed the passing hairiness resemblance to the Brothers Gibb?

Hullygully · 17/06/2011 17:17

I think they all use Timotei

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 17:19

Oh Fuck. I've just realised that in Hell my highlights will become brassy as well.

Forgive me oh Beegees. I surely do repent. If you can just see your way to not making my hair turn green in the swimming pool I will surely tithe you at least 15% of my income with a healthy tip if I am extra pleased with the results. Hairmen.

drivingmisscrazy · 17/06/2011 17:19

but Beck is a scientologist...it just gets weirder and weirder. I love the subversive turn this thread has taken :)

HellAtWork · 17/06/2011 17:21

He is indeed MissCrazy - I only found that out about a year ago - his whole family are aren't they?

allhailtheaubergine · 17/06/2011 17:22

I love it when you plough through a worthy OP and skip straight to the end to find Hully talking about shampoo.

Hullygully · 17/06/2011 17:23

Not just any shampoo, Timotei

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