If you don't actually WANT the work, fine. Just be honest about it.

[bupcakesandcunting]

Right, I have had six men visit my house to quote me on re-building my patio/some steps. Out of the six, how many do you reckon have got back to me with a price?

One.

Bloody one.

I explain to them on the phone what the job is and ask if that's something they'd do. they sy yes so we aarrange for them to come round. They stand in my garden, measuring, umming and ahhhing about how much material they'll need etc, say they'll ring me with a price and NOTHING! Honestly, if they said "I'm sorry but it's more work than I'd realised. I won't be able to help" then it would be different. As it is, I've spent a total of six weeks waiting for these phonecalls that never come (they have all said to give them a week to get back with a cost)

It dos my swede in. So, if you know of/are married to/are employed as someone in this fieldand are in the Midlands, PM me. I am fucking NICE to work for. I dole out tea and biscuits and don't chuck a diva fit when things go wrong.

I am a Project Manager by trade so for my own house I prefer to bring in a trusted tradesman on an agreed daily rate. It means I am the one taking the risk of overruns, but as I am quite demanding, it also means they don't have to worry about taking the time to do jobs the way I want them. I am not a termagent (I would say that!) and don't stand over them but I have written enough job specs and managed enough people to know how to express it, and how to recognise a diligent and skilful worker when I see one. I only bring in people I know or have been recommended to me.

I recently had a joiner in doing a complete rip-out and install of floor, door and frame, skirting and windowboards for a room I am renovating. He commented at the end what a pleasure it was to work for someone who knows exactly what he wants.

The annoying thing is that if he was subbing for a building firm, he would be doing the same thing for the same rate, but being hustled to do it faster and worse and the customer would be paying three times as much.

"Can you imagine if everyone in the country would only work within their own postcode" Hmmmm well if you had to start work at 8am and work till 6 to get the work done you might not be so keen to travel 70 miles each way. And then when the arsehold architect or client changes his mind - work an extra couple of hours a day to make up the time because god forbid they should have to wait longer and pay more . Beleive me since I have known people involved in the building trade I have changed my mind 100% . There are lazy, useless, incompetent tradesmen but a lot less than the tabloid-mindset thinks and if we were all prepared to pay more for a good job and to be flexible, there would be a lot less.

And I honestly think there would be a huge market for a professional quoter - someone who has the time to go and provide quotes on behalf of tradesmen so they didn't have to go out last thing at night after a long days work when they still have books to do and families to spend time with.

SOrry for the irate tone. It upsets me - all this talk about 'all builders are workshy, incompetent, cowboys'. DH was self-employed but did almost all of this work for one small company. They were all decent, hard-working, skilful worksmen but unless there was boom time they struggled to make money. That wasn't because they weren't busy - they always were - but because they had to cut their prices right back to get work, and even if work wasn't profitable you had to do it to keep the bigger companies sweet for when times improved.

They refitted MIL's bathroom - knocking a wall down, moving a door and making it good. They charged her a reasonable rate and then came back 3 or 4 times to put finishing touches to it because they didn't think it was quite right. Made no money - but lots of goodwill. Sadly good will only goes so far when people want things done for such a low price. And the bigger building companies are the worst of the lot - the well-known house building companies that we all know and love

As I say I am do glad DH isn't doing it anymore - he loved the work but I got pissed off being the only one making a good wage and still having to do the school run and most of the parenting as DH was always working or driving home. When the recession hit and things got harder he gave up and went back to teaching.

No-one is talking 70 miles each way! That is taking it to the other extreme, although FWIW, DH DOES travel pretty much that amount each day. I travelled 20 miles each way to work when I was working full-time, so I know about commuting. I'm not suggesting that anyone else does anything I wouldn't be up for doing myself.

The price thing is a bit of a red herring in this case, anyway. I've not moaned about the (one) price I was given. Rather that no-one had got back to me with ANY price. I don't want work done for nothing, never have done. Just a straight yes or no is all I have asked for. I wouldn't be offended if someone came back with a quote for ten grand. I would exercise my right to decline but I would thank them very much for their time/getting back to me.

I know. As I said, I reckon most builders could do with a quote-provision service.

Perhaps you DH takes home more than approx 8k a year after expenses?

Ooh, after reading this I think it's time to stump up for some more biscuits etc for my builder!!!! He's wonderful, he's helped me find the other contractors, and supervised them, slotting all of them in at the right time, getting things done as quickly as possible for us to move into the house.

(I have supplied biscuits occasionally, but as I'm not actually on site it's not that simple! Oh and I've told him not to bother replacing the kettle that one of the other contractors broke - must get a cheap one in so they can make teas and coffees....!!!).

His quote, while not cheap, was broken down per job, so when I needed to work out what I could and couldn't afford I could actually sit down and talk through all the jobs with him and decide what could be dropped/postponed. He also pointed out the areas where the biggest risks of overrun could be, and gave me maximum prices if things were to go a little less smoothly than hoped.

He's actually said that because we're redoing the whole house (and I mean the WHOLE house!!!) he's not charging anything on top of the materials - and is even getting me trade price on some things that I'm doing myself. However, if it were a smaller job then he would normally add something onto the trade price, and I think that's quite fair, actually. I mean, I'm not entitled to the trade price myself, so if he ramps it up to the same price that I would pay anyway, why would I complain???

"I don't see why builders should make extra on materials." oh please our "local" DIY store is a 20 minute drive each way, this uses fuel - they often dont have everything he wants so 2 trips or a drive round Plus why shouldnt he charge for the time this takes...he would much rather be at home with the children? why shouldnt we charge for that...its a business thats the point.

A 10-20% mark up is ok 30% borderline, anything above that unnacceptable

We wouldnt ever discourage someone from getting their own materials - but make sure you have them all on site for when the job starts and you have ordered sufficient or if the job overruns as a result - it will cost more as he cant work for anyone else.

If he does extra work you should get paid for it, unless its as a result of something you have done wrong. I have to clarify everything some clients are so sharp - standard range doors, paint, designer costs more - is it chrome or chrome effect they will say one thing when you see them then want more when the job is underway - got caught out very early on that one with a ridiculous priced door strip.

DH is writing quotes pretty much every evening and, as mentioned before, even if the customer has taken him all round their house and it runs to pages and pages we rarely get a call/e-mail to say "thanks but im not bothering/waiting/using someone else" in fact I am occasionally pleasantly surprised when we do. If it were a case of the price being too high and we were quiet (unusual) I would reduce it by a bit.

£200 labour for "town" I would say was OK but it is a regional thing, some areas will be £100, a very small percent less - but as mentioned before thats not PROFIT take out van maintenance/tax, 25% tax, fuel, public liability, advertising, tools (some tile cutters, ruined after 1 job, cost £100 EACH) etc etc trust me the profit margin is waaay lower.

Its amazing how its acceptable to bad mouth tradesmen in this way but if I had written these comments about travellers you'd have all jumped down my throat and called me a bigot. (not aimed at you bupcakes I appreciate you were just "venting") Yes an element are this way - probably a higher percentage if you live in one of the bigger cities, in a smaller community they rely on reputation

Oh come on. You can't compare a CHOSEN profession with an ethnic minority. That's ridiculous. There are lots of professions I like to vent about: estate agents, bankers... A lot of us have had dodgy experiences with builders, judging by this thread. I know not ALL builders are the same, but the sad truth is, a lot of them want maximum profit/minimum output in terms of work. IME, anyway.

Oh by all means have a moan we are british thats what we do best after all but dont tarr them all with the same brush - its unfair and untrue.

I have never had a problem with work I have arranged to have done - I get people on referral from friends, I would if they were immediately available, I always get written quotes and I accept that the nature of the work means that they may not start exactly when they say and it may over run.

Yes there are bad tradesmen but trust me there are a equal amount of bad clients with unrealistic/unreasonable expectations. I am sure if I decided to bad mouth your career you would have something to say about it?

Why do you keep insinuating that I have a problem with people not being immediately available?! I don't. I have a problem with NO MANNERS.

Look, your DH is a builder, you're obviously touchy about it and you feel like I'm personally attacking your husband. FWIW people on here start threads whingeing about people in my profession most days. Don't think much of it tbh...

Try being a lawyer. Everyone hates us.

Speaking of bad tradesmen....a plumber turned up to quote me for fitting 4 bathrooms today as he cancelled 5 minutes before he was due to come over yesterday. He turned up an hour late. I told him on the doorstep that punctuality was his first test and he failed; and if he thought for one second that he would behave like that on my time, then he can forget it. I didn't even let him through the door.

Wouldn't have killed him to have phoned to let me know he was running late.

1 down, endless to go.

[winkz]

Did NOT mean to type "winkz"...

A bit late on the uptake, but what I wanted to see was;

"Boo, hiss" to you Bupcakes.

Not very witty when it's a fucking decade late.

or "say".

Epic fail of a comeback.

I love that

So when he's doing a job for you, and you get an unexpected water leak at 4.59, you'll expect him to pack up his tools and go home at 5pm prompt, leaving the water gushing over your home until he arrives at 8am the following day (or Monday, if a weekend)

One builder who had agreed a time to visit for a quote didn't turn up and then phoned me later to apologise and say that he had "fallen into a reverie" and had forgotten our appointment.

stangirl that is the most fantastic excuse i've ever heard. i will be using it from now on.

"Fallen into a reverie" Love that

Actually Bupcakes I wasnt insinuating anything about you I thought we were having a conversation and I was just telling you how it is from the "other side" so to speak.

But I have also successfully employed contractors myself and there are good and bad ways of going about it.

As Ormirion said anyone who is giving you a ridiculously high price has most likely decided they dont want to work for you and "this will make putting up with her worthwhile"

I'll stop trying to help and bog off and leave you to it as it's working out so well

My Dad is a builder.

He did a job for an old, infirm lady once...he used to make her lunch every day and sit and chat with her (on his own time, obviously.) She was housebound and really lonely.

He recently carried on with a job after cutting his hand open as he wanted to make sure the wall he was working on was safe before he went to the docs. He put one of his gloves on so he didn't get blood everywhere.

It goes without saying that he would always get a quote back to you. And it would be fair. AND he always passes his discount on to the customer.

Some builders are very honourable and nice.

But he doesn't live near you bupcakes (or look like the diet coke break man :))

Georgimama LOL, i'm sure your bank manager doesnt!

I'm looking forward to the week when he retires and some "madam" phones me and says "I want x doing, Ive had ridiculous quotes, it will only take 2 days at the most" blah blah blah and I can say "well as you're such an expert its probably best we leave you to get on with it yourself"

long way off unfortunately, although to be fair we are lucky and do have some lovely long term clients.

Incidentally no one EVER seems to come back to us with a quote for ANYTHING. Unless it's one of those 'I really don't want this job so I'll say I'll charge a billion quid plus vat for it' sort of quotes.

I don't know why. Perhaps it's the dungeon that puts people off....

If I'd read the thread properly I would've seen that it had all got all feisty. And I prob wouldn't have bothered to post, in case it appeared I was wading into the affray....

ginhag dh did that once too, cut himself on the edge of a clients newly installed designer glass tiles, put on a rubber glove full of tissue, cleaned up then went off to get stiched up!

I do dispair of his "I knocked £50 off the price because it took a bit less time than I expected" when the person involved lives in a mansion they probably spend less than that on gym membership (which we would love but cant afford)

A few months ago someone bunged in an extra £30 because she was so pleased and honestly we couldnt have been happier that day it was so nice and so rare