If you don't actually WANT the work, fine. Just be honest about it.

[bupcakesandcunting]

Right, I have had six men visit my house to quote me on re-building my patio/some steps. Out of the six, how many do you reckon have got back to me with a price?

One.

Bloody one.

I explain to them on the phone what the job is and ask if that's something they'd do. they sy yes so we aarrange for them to come round. They stand in my garden, measuring, umming and ahhhing about how much material they'll need etc, say they'll ring me with a price and NOTHING! Honestly, if they said "I'm sorry but it's more work than I'd realised. I won't be able to help" then it would be different. As it is, I've spent a total of six weeks waiting for these phonecalls that never come (they have all said to give them a week to get back with a cost)

It dos my swede in. So, if you know of/are married to/are employed as someone in this fieldand are in the Midlands, PM me. I am fucking NICE to work for. I dole out tea and biscuits and don't chuck a diva fit when things go wrong.

Bupcakes, I wonder if you'd have more success if you tried some hard landscaping companies rather than builders?

Bupcakes you would be surprised how many people do tell me this on the phone...then repeat it to DH when he sees them.

We have so many clients where DH comes home and goes "oh now she wants me to do x and x and x as well" but they never take into account that a: it will take longer and b: it will cost more. Ive even put "if there are any changes or additions to the work quoted for above please let me know in advance so we can advise you of revised prices, obtain materials and ensure we have enough time" do they do that.....do they f*ck!! Therefore the NEXT client has to be delayed and I really hate that part of the job!

I have been on the other side too - I cant say my building projects (home) have ever been completed on target, its the nature of the beast...they dig a hole and find a pipe thats not meant to be there blah blah blah. I just let them get on with it and as long as it GETS finished without costs escalating too much I dont consider it a problem. I dont get stressed about the mess though...my mum wants things finished the second they are started and stresses until all the mess has gone

The one thing that would really get my goat is if a job was started and then someone went off to start another...never happened to me as we have only used people on referral but it IS a deliberate ploy some builders use as they have then ensured you are less likely to give the job to someone else even though they cant complete it within your timescale.

Generally builders are not good at admin or "niceties" thats why they are doing that for a living instead of something more lucrative/cleaner (unless you are using one of these chaps who charges tons, lives in a big house, uses cheap eastern european labour and calls himself a "developer")

I think maybe if you have jobs underway you need to be nice but firm say "I really need it completed by x date as we have people staying"

I might do, Deux. I just thought that because I didn't need any actual landscaping doing, it is really just building work, that I'd be better off with a builder/general labourer. I had a labourer to do my last paving job and he was fantastic, but unfortunately he died* :(

*NOT as a result of working for me, before anyone suggests it.

Sherlock, I always give a breakdown of what I need doing so that we are both clear on what is expected, for both of our benefits really and for the reasons you stated just.

Having being brought up arounds tradesmen, I think I'm pretty decent at talking to them. I don't expect them to use the professionalism that my bank manager might but just a simple "thanks but no thanks." I just can't stand rudeness, from whoever, really. It gives tradesmen a bad name. I'd never experienced it until this last year, tbh. I thought it was a myth.

Bups

Do you think they don't want local work because you can come a' knockin' if it goes tits up? Nice bit of distance makes it a bit more difficult.

I had a fab builder for my garden wall and I am East Midlands - could dig out his number but he is a builder and not a landscaper.

"They don't think they can make an easy extra wodge out of us so they aren't bothering."

Oh ha ha! An extra wodge? Do you know how much money the builder will actually make from your patio? Peanuts. He will spend a day or two which he will quote you for knowing that something will not be as it seems and it will take longer - but if he quotes you more you won't accept his quote. The 'extra wodge' is probably the only profit he makes. Every job in the last few years that DH was involved in has come in at a minimal profit or even a loss but the company had to take them on because that was all there was and they needed the goodwill for when things pick up. And meanwhile the jobs that make the minimal profit are prioritised over the little jobs that won't. Like patios.

If they quoted you the right price that would guarantee them a fair profit you'd throw your hands up in horror and tell your friends not to use A Cowboy Building Company as they charge too much.

I know it seems crap but that is the reality. The big national companies can afford it because they have buying power and treat their employees worse than small companies.

Thank fuck DH isn't in that game anymore. Hard work, absurd hours and travelling and no money.

I do spend all my time at the moment saying to H "have you a quote for Mrs ... yet" "should I have told Mr .... the date in your diary" (he never likes to do that too far in advance because he HATES changing dates...but they do get knocked back for the reasons mentioned before).

Most do their own admin though so god only knows when they get the time to do it in the summer when its so busy.

Ormarion DHs rate he pays himself per day is less than it was 3 years ago and materials have gone through the roof...but of course we are getting so rich must be true its said so in the national newspapers!!

I've rarely turned down a quote because it was too expensive - people have to make a living after all. And if I need extra work then I do expect to pay extra. That's not my issue. It's the pissing about that irritates me.

Gay40....point taken, The dishonest behaviour

"Read all the messages and know how annoying it can be. My Husband is a tradesman - the most annoying thing from the "other side" point of view is when he takes time out his day/evening to go and look at a job, sits at home perhaps spending a hour (sometimes longer!) preparing a detailed estimate and then the people don't even have the courtesy to send an email or give him a quick call to say thanks but no thanks. Do the rude so-and-so's not realise that yes, he has to go and look at jobs to get them but time is money and the courtesy of a response would be nice! Fortunately this doesn't happen very often as he is usually successful with his quotes but still....AARRRGH!"

I'm with mymmy77! My dh is also a tradesman and spends ages viewing jobs and then quoting them. Answers questions etc...... and then nothing! Not all the time, not even the majority of it, but it does happen and it's bloody annoying.

Oh and we're in Hampshire if you're looking for anyone!!

I don't mind paying whatever their daily rate is. I really don't. DH's best mate is a labourer (although he is actually a professional tiler) and he comes in at about £200 for a day. I will pay £200 for a day. That works out to £28 per hour. I'm told that is the going rate for a decent builder.

Why the fuck do they think they can add another 30% on for materials that I can order myself, so that they can pocket it? My plumber hasn't done this for my bathroom. My tiler didn't do it for my tiles. The money they wanted paying was the money they quoted me for labour. I don't like being bullshitted on the materials front. No other tradesman has expected to make a profit out of me on materials.

Oh, and peanuts? I don't call £2700 for four days work peanuts, btw. (Which is what the one bloke who got back to me quoted)

Oh and if I need "extra work" then of course I expect to pay for it/for it not to be done as and when I say! Do people really exist that want unforseen work done for nothing?

Was that one man or two? Divide that over 4 days, take off tax, NI, public liability etc and it doesn't seem quite so much. Bearing in mind if it rains he can't work or risk turning your garden into a bog garden so he will lose a day's work somewhere else ! And his transport costs too. And wear and tear on tools - DH's Estwing hammers alone used to cost nearly £100 each and he got through several a year.

And above I suspect he only quoted you that much because he didn't really want the job.

As i say I am so glad he's not doing it anymore.

"Do people really exist that want unforseen work done for nothing?"

yes they do. When the ground underneath the patio turns out to need more stablisiing than previously thought. Or there are pipes that have to be moved, or cables. Might take an extra half a day but most punters are pissed off enough that the job will take longer than stated to even consider that it might actually cost them more,

Having said I can see it must be very frustrating.

One man. I did ask if he would be doing it alone and he said alone. I offered to help him get my exisiting pavers up.

If he didn't really want the job, I'd have thought he'd have gone the route of not phoning me to give a price/phoning me to see if I still needed it doing a week later.

Why do people enter a job that they hate/resent doing? You're a builder, right? I need some building work doing. I ask you about it. Don't talk to me like I've asked if it's OK for me to come and crap on your front lawn. It's truly baffling.

"he also never makes money on materials, which is probably why we are always poor, he's more than honest he often fleeces himself and doesn't charge for stuff."

See, I always bung another 20% on the bill if I think a tradesman hasn't tried to fleece me. I know that a non-fleecing tradesman is a rarity so I think it's wise to keep them sweet.

this is so interesting, especially to hear it from the other side

have ended up doing such a lot myself because of unreliaility and poor work

it's very tiring but less mentally stressful

even now am gearing myself up to call back a carpet fitter who did a bad job

I don't see why builders should make extra on materials. I don't charge a mark up on the disbursements incurred in a legal case (court fees for example) so I can't see why they should.

You wouldn't think there was a recession on the way some tradesmen turn work away. DH's brother is always moaning that he has no work; funnily enough his son has more work than he can handle because he 1) always answers his mobile when available or returns calls promptly 2) provides quotes promptly 3) follows them up 4) does what he says he will do 5) is prepared to work in more than a 500 yard radius of his house - unlike his father.

There's loads of work here for reliable thorough people who will turn up when agreed. But no. They just don't show.

I am a Project Manager by trade so for my own house I prefer to bring in a trusted tradesman on an agreed daily rate. It means I am the one taking the risk of overruns, but as I am quite demanding, it also means they don't have to worry about taking the time to do jobs the way I want them. I am not a termagent (I would say that!) and don't stand over them but I have written enough job specs and managed enough people to know how to express it, and how to recognise a diligent and skilful worker when I see one. I only bring in people I know or have been recommended to me.

I recently had a joiner in doing a complete rip-out and install of floor, door and frame, skirting and windowboards for a room I am renovating. He commented at the end what a pleasure it was to work for someone who knows exactly what he wants.

The annoying thing is that if he was subbing for a building firm, he would be doing the same thing for the same rate, but being hustled to do it faster and worse and the customer would be paying three times as much.

"5) is prepared to work in more than a 500 yard radius of his house - unlike his father."

Good point. What IS the deal with this "only working local" business? And by local, I mean within the same postcode. Can you imagine if everyone in the country would only work within their own postcode?