..to tell this student midwife to back off! Long rant warning!

[deepbluewave]

At my 39 week MW app. there was a SMW, I had met twice, present. She asked how I was and asked for a favor. As a nurse, I had an inkling, it would be about writing an essay on me. She said she had to write an essay on ante-natal care and as I had moved hospital trusts mid pregnancy, she thought she could base it on the difference in notes. I said, yes immediately, didnt mind at all!

She then said, it would involve coming to my house for a chat, pre and post labor- I dont really mind that, chance for a rant...but then said she would be present at labor. I asked " what if I go into labour in the middle of the night?"
She said, "call me- Ill be there" and then put a note on my file, asking the ward to call her when in labour.
I called my DH on the way home and he said, he wasnt really 'feeling it' and by this point, I wasnt either. I dont mind students being present at birth, but I wasnt sure to what extent she actually meant.
She came round the next day and I vowed to be assertive, to ask her straight and tell her how we felt. I asked how this works, as it was our first baby, we would like it to be just us two- sje did NOT take the hint, and sold herself even more- for which she said-

" This will be really good for you, as you will get 121 care- I can be there as much as you want, all the time- if your DH needs a break, I can sit with you and if your on the ward and DH had to go home, I cant sit and talk you through the pain" She then told me a storey of how good she was with a patient, who in the end only wanted her there and not her family and because of her expertise-needed no pain intervention!
She then spent 90 minutes at my house, telling me about her DH, DC, 30 up coming birthday- saying, she felt if I was going to open up- it was only right she should!?????????????????????????? I couldnt give a shit!
Then she said her friend works on mat ward, and I should request her for care!!! How can I do that, if she is already caring for a patient- I wouldnt do that in a million years!
After she left, I stuck my own note on my file, asking the hosptial to ask me, when she should be called.
At my next MW appt, she saw this- and asked why I had put it on my notes- I told her it was our first baby and I didnt want to watched all the way through. My MW explained she would only be shadowing the MW who cares for me....fair enough- but this is one pushy FIRST YEAR- yes FIRST year student! She was even feeling my belly when at home and asked if I wanted her to teach DH how to feel for baby!!! Is this right????

Anyway- lat night, she text asking if anything was happening (now 41 wks) and what time my next MW appoitment is- I told her 16pm, and she replied-
" oh, if I wasnt at Uni, I would offer to come with you!" I dont want her to come with me! I want her to back off- I only agreed she could write an essay on me!!!! Now I feel like she is my fucking partner or something. Im so close to loosing it with her and dont want the stress when Im in labour..

Im not seeing my normal MW today (so she told me) so who do I talk to, what do I say, without making it awkward for both of us, when in labour!
AIBU????????

Yeah I am hopeful, it will be a blessing...Im tempted just to 'ride' it and see how how it goes. I may find her amazing and really helpful and informative at the time. At the end of the day, when I am in labour and if she is annoying me, I can just ask her to give me and DH some time.......

Esian-- the tea making had crossed my mind too! he he he.

Im of the theory i train enough professionally. I had a student mw just observe me during labour. Tbh i got to the stage were she was irritating me by just observing. Although that was all she was allowed to do.

I think the skill of beong supportive and not interferinf has to be learnt. I also think you should have been given all the info about how much she wanted to be involved complete with written info and then allowed to think about it.

I dont see why she has to be at birth for case study. She has access to your notes and pre and post interviews. im sure college has not told her she has to be at birth although she can request permission but not pressure you. This needs raising with your midwife.

at the end of the day- I dont how its going to go or how I will feel- I may really need her.....

I think I will arrange a signal with my DH,,,, that he can also do- if she is bugging him....pah!

There's no way that she should be at the birth, especially as now she really annoys you. Tell your MW that you no longer wish to see or speak to this student MW.

Boysrock-- I have to agree- about being given time to think about it, after it was ALL explained! I couldnt have known about her personality though!

I agree with the people above she needs to know now that she is making you feel uncomfortable. I think it takes considerable skill and experience to balance being warm and empathetic with maintaining boundaries and communicating professionalism. It sounds like this woman does not yet have these skills and she won't develop them if you don't tell her.

If you are direct now then you could also say you are happy for her to attend the birth provided she understands that you may prefer her to leave if being alone with your DH is better for you.

At the end of the day this your body, pregnancy and labour and you shouldn't have to spend it being wound up. She did not ask if she could be present during labour, she told you she would be after you consented to an essay. I may well have been a genuine mistake - to her "essay" meant the level of intrusion you have described, to you meant, well, an essay. At the end of the day she's forcing something on you which you did not consent to, and needs to be told. YANBU.

Students can be horribly pushy...I had one whip the curtains from around me and newborn DD2 and sing out in a breezy voice "Can I listen to babys heart? I hear she has a murmer and I need to study that."

I was feeding and tired and upset about the murmur....so told her to get away from me.

She was very insensitive. I hope you sort this out OP...

I didn't want a student there for anything for DD1. I had the hospital midwife at first - who was very nice then the community midwife from my group of 6(who I hadn't actually met but who was brilliant) after she had finished with another patient and DH.

For DD2 I was more relaxed and there was a football team of students there for the nuchal scan :) then one student with the hospital midwife and DH for the delivery. It was the first delivery the student had attended so she was made up about everything, and probably quite a nice introduction being fairly straightforward, with a bit of interest that I didn't know when my waters had gone

Understandably with first time round though you don't know how it will go so you want to be prescriptive about who is in the room. Last thing you want is feeling stressed, that won't help matters at all.

What a lot of health professionals don't have is a charming bedside manner, even the very experienced ones. You don't want to be treated as an experiment or a body, even if that's how they see you.

So, what should I say exactly- If I speak with MW today, .....
Shall I just explain Im feeling a little pressured by her and Im not sure she is acting, totally in my best interest and I am worried I am feeling tense already about her.
Im worried, that when she reports back to student, it will then be very awkward for us all...
yeah, I think I will explain, I thought it was just an essay and although I dont mind her being present, she has to be intuitive to what I want and maybe Uni should be made aware.

Hmmmm...Ok, I was a student MW for a while, so I might be a bit partisan here.

On the one hand, I think that if you choose to book at a teaching hospital, then it's a bit churlish to refuse students in the normal course of things... how do the next generation of practitioners learn? It's a necessary part of midwifery training to caseload, and to support women through labour. Most women jump at the chance once they realise that they'll get the continuity and one-on-one care and support that all MWs should be able to provide, but often can't due to time and other constraints. Students are usually earnest, very well intentioned, full of fresh (if obviously novice) knowledge and very eager to learn and help (that's why they're students!). They're usually, therefore, good to have in your corner.

On the other hand, it sounds as if this SMW is, at best, being insensitive to your signals due to her overenthusiasm, or, at worst, being pushy and overbearing. In my training, taking on a woman as a caseload was quite a big deal, and explained thoroughly to the woman concerned so that she could make an informed decision. It doesn't sound as if this SMW did that at all; instead she seems to have put a toe in the door talking about the essay, then kicked the door open into a full caseloading scenario! She does sound well intentioned to me from what you've said, and I feel a bit sorry for her. If she's a 1st year then this is all very new to her still. Probably talking to her supervising midwife is the way to go, and tell her that you feel a bit crowded.

If you really don't like her, then don't have her involved with you. But you might find further down the line that you really would have benefitted from the continuity of care and having someone so eager to help you.

Hi, not been in your exact position before but I deal with tricky and pushy people day in, day out at work!

I'd be honest with your MW, explain that you've been very happy to help the SMW but now feel she's being too pushy and crossing boundaries you're trying delicately to establish (point out things like the text). I'm sure the MW will have seen this before and will understand.

By being up-front with your MW, she can pass it on to the SMW giving the her an opportunity to learn from this. After all, we all learn from mistakes!

I wouldn't feel guilty - you don't need added stress during labour!

Perhaps you should have a word with her, and tell her that you are finding her manner a bit OTT, and this is making you feel uncomfortable. Ask her to dial it back a bit, and see how she reacts - maybe she will take it on board completely, and will be glad you told her, in which case you could let her be there at the birth and who knows, she might be absolutely wonderful. However, if she reacts poorly to what you say, that would be a big warning sign, and you'd probably be happier if she weren't at the birth.

But speaking directly to her gives her the chance to see where she's going wrong and to correct it, and will give you some clue as to whether to allow her at the birth or not.

I'd definitely mention that you feel a bit pressured and that you thought it was just an essay. I wouldn't mention that she's not acting in your best interest because she probably is, in her own way.

Also be aware that your MW will only be sympathetic up to a point - it is important that students get a chance to train but that isn't your responsibility. During my 1st labour a SMW popped her head round the door and breezily asked if she could come and watch. I was at the point of transition and not in the mood to be treated like an animal at the zoo (even if I sounded like one!) so said no, and the delivering MW apologised for her barging in.

Play it by ear with your MW this afternoon and if you feel she's not sympathetic then do as StayingDavid says and talk to the SMW.

It's your birth not hers. If you don't want the SMW there then tell your MW you've changed your mind. You don't need to explain why. Birth is a personal thing. Whatever you do don't feel obligated. Do what you want. You owe the SMW nothing.

By the way the SMW sounds awful. No way would I want her at the birth of my child. She's over stepping the mark telling you that she is so great that you will probably just want her there and you won't need pain relief. I'd be amazed if her head even fitted through the labour ward door!

I think that if you choose to book at a teaching hospital

For many people there is not a "choice of hospital" in any real sense. Or an option to choose one that isn't a teaching hospital.

Quite reasonable to be put off by someone who is coming across slightly Single White Female in any event.

Iloveyoutoo- good to hear from you- thanks.
As I said, I have nothing against students, I know they have to learn and I was a student nurse myself once. I welcome having one in general, but feel this one, is one (anyone who works in a hospital is well aware of)- the student/ come sister... type thing.
I booked into my hospital, as it was local, the nearest to my home for me and family and the only one I know my way round- not because I expected to be a lab rat.
I am being sensitive to her needs, but she isnt to mine and overall I think she is out for her experience of being in charge of me and not sensitive to it being mine and my DH experience first and foremost.
I really dont know what to do for the best!!!! I have thought about saying something- I know I wont ring her- I havmt the balls for that, but I may text her.......after I have spoken with MW and asked her advice!!!

@iloveyoutoo (aww cute name) - I agree, students need to learn. But this one has definitively crossed the line, she did not obtain informed consent for what she wants to do. Put it this way, if I said to you "would you mind if I dropped by for a cup of tea and a chat" to you then breezed in and asked what was for dinner, you'd be pretty peeved too. In this case I think what the student needs to learn is to listen, learn to how obtain consent correctly, and to respect boundaries.

@deepbluewave - you need to decide what level of involvement you and you DH are comfortable with, and clearly communicate it. You should also raise the issue that all you acutally consented to was an essay and she has basically invited herself to your labour with your MW, and if you do decide she can be around for the birth get your DH to be firm with the woman and tell her if/when she needs to give you some space. Good luck :D

Ok - self outing - I am student MW (not the one in the OPs post from description). She sounds "over enthusiastic" to put it mildly. My uni (as most do) offer students the opportunity to caseload. In those cases, MW would discuss it with you - you can withdraw from the process at any point. Caseloading works differently in different unis, at ours the system was there was a sticker placed on your maternity notes, and if possible I would attend antenatal appts with you - however the method of contact was via MW - we were not allowed to contact women directly so if you were unhappy you could not inform the student. With the women's permission I was called in for the births - again if you didn't want this that would be fine, - was privileged to be at both births and then visited postnatally.

However I am not sure that this sounds like an official caseloading process and student seems keen to be more involved - incidentally - where I work we would not be called in for any births other than case-loading lady, not appropriate if not on LW placement at the time.

I would politely explain to the mw that you don't want this student present at the birth - you can refuse care from anyone, and explain how you feel about the way the student has "pressured" you - whilst no-one likes negative feedback, as students we need to know if we are being inappropriate.

Best wishes for your birth.

I had a student midwife at the birth of DS earlier this year. She was very overbearing and KEPT BLOODY TOUCHING ME - stroking my back, hair etc. Also when I was having an epidural at 9cm because DS had shifted transverse, she completely fucked up inserting the canula (and when you are having contractions 1 min apart and have been having so for the last 2 hours this is a big deal, ouch) so that I had to have another one put in. I complained (admittedly vaguely incoherently as I was exhausted and on G&A) to the midwife but she just said not to be hard on her as it's her first birth! I was too tired to argue and just swore every time she left the room. Luckily the next midwife who came on shift was more understanding, but if I were you I'd voice my concerns NOW, as I really felt I was in a shit position with no support from the midwife, and it was just added pressure. It was also my first baby so I said "fine" when I came into hospital at 6cm and was asked - you don't really think about it when you're working through contractions etc - I didn't know what to expect and I know they need to learn but I really felt she invaded my personal space and I will have to say no next time.

Then SHE fainted after leaving the room post-delivery.

Have to say, if it's your first and you don't have a good idea how you're going to react to 'interpersonal' stresses - I'd ask if you can withdraw from the study, and NOT have her at the birth.

You may be fine, but having someone at your birth that you already would rather was NOT is generally a bad idea. It may make you more stressed, and slow things. You may turn into a roaring tiger and chuck her out at the first bit of busybodying - or you may just get really upset and stressed but feel powerless to do anything about it. Not a great start. Give yourself the best start and weed her out. There will be other cases for her to practice on, and in a way you withdrawing will be the single most useful piece of REAL feedback she'd get. She's really not produced the goods here - she needs to know it.

• we were not allowed to contact women directly so if you were unhappy you could not inform the student.

This should have read - "if you were not happy you could opt not to inform the student of your appt etc"

Hmm, exactly as poor Lottery says above!

Don't be looking back wishing you'd been more assertive. All the best for a great birth by the way :)

Why is this woman texting you in the first place? That is deeply unprofessional! Unless you have specifically requested it for some reason, that is...

You obviously don't like this woman. Just tell your midwife that you don't want her to be involved in your care any further. You can do without this kind of hassle during pregnancy and you sure as hell don't need to be stressing about how she'll be during your labour.