Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think the book how not to f*** them up is awful

80 replies

tvmum1976 · 14/06/2011 20:04

I'm sure that this has been discussed a lot in the past (I am pretty new to motherhood and mumsnet...) but have just read this book and find it unbelievably judgemental, sexist, and full of rubbish.
Sorry, had to vent.

OP posts:
Original poster
tvmum1976 · 14/06/2011 21:50

it wasn't the strong attachment bit I minded. I think most people entering motherhood would assume that would be the case. It was the 'consider the word 'mother' a gender neutral term...' WTF? "mother" is as gender neutral a term as "woman" , the complete lack of acknowledgment of a father's role or responsibility, the concluding chapter : "maybe you should just acknowledge you are being a bit selfish by wanting a career..." (is a man selfish to want a career and children?) the whole thinly disguised 'my mother didn't love me enough and so I am somehow playing the whole thing out as a pseudo scientific attack on mothers generally...'
yuk.
Glad others felt the same way.

OP posts:
itisnotacompetitionyouknow · 14/06/2011 21:51

working9while5 - I am intending to go back to work very shortly, but I do actually believe that my DS would be better off with me at home looking after him rather than someone else. I'm not going to pretend me leaving him is best for me and best for him, because it isn't.

ScarlettIsWalking · 14/06/2011 21:51

I quite enjoy his books and think he makes some very valid points.

Original poster
tvmum1976 · 14/06/2011 21:52

ps thanks for the other recommendations- will have a look.

OP posts:
TheCrackFox · 14/06/2011 21:53

He is an arse. What more do you need to know?

working9while5 · 14/06/2011 21:56

I am in the same situation, itisnotacompetition.. and I am no great fan of the fact my child is in a nursery (not my first choice of care yada yada) but OJ lays culpability for a lot at the door of the mother in a way that is, really, quite sexist. He could make similar points in a less inflammatory "my mummy didn't love me!" way and I would have a great deal more respect for him. More importantly, he wouldn't use his profession to publish poor science as fact.

I would really find it easier to read books that say what he was saying by women who had made the choice to stay at home. It's very difficult to see OJ and Biddulph's work as non-sexist when it is essentially commenting on what women should do from a male perspective.

FingandJeffing · 14/06/2011 21:58

He used the word retarded in one of his Observer columns and he thinks ADHD and other similar conditions are caused by bad parenting. That's enough for me to think he's a twat.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 14/06/2011 22:21

Did he use the word retarded as a pejorative term for someone with mental disabilities, or did he just use the English word "retarded" as it is properly understood?

Nullius · 14/06/2011 22:40

I think Oliver James gets an unfair bashing on here actually.

Hes a qualified child psychologist and both of his parents were psychoanalysts if I rememeber rightly, including working with Anna Freud, so I think he is qualified to write his books.

So you dont agree with him, doesnt mean he cant have an opinion.

For what its worth, alot of what he writes is based on attachment theory (Bowlby) which is widely respected. The difference is James adds alot of his own persoanl opinion into the books, so its true to say they are not unbiased.

Personally, I hardly think its radical to suggest that a mother looking after her own baby is a good thing. Hmm

FingandJeffing · 14/06/2011 22:41

The former, I'm on my phone but I'll try to look it up, he was challenged about it on has webchat and he apologised for not proof reading his article.

Greythorne · 14/06/2011 22:47

See here for evidence of James' idiocy.

SybilBeddows · 14/06/2011 22:49

if you do a thread titles search for Oliver James you will find quite a few lovely long and ranty threads.

I've just remembered what it was that made me think he was daft - he actually said in an interview (which I listened to 3 times to make sure I'd heard him right) toddlers should be cared for one-to-one.

Given how happy my toddler is milling around with his siblings and amusing himself most of the time I think this shows he doesn't know much about kids.

FingandJeffing · 14/06/2011 22:52

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/29/oliver-james-child-behaviour-genetics

It's now been edited as it says at the end of the page as I believe the Guardian received complaints. Still used it though, before lots inc on mumsnet complained. Nice.

Nullius · 14/06/2011 22:52

Just because you dont like it or do not agree with it does not make it idiocy.

Infact he is quoting other research and the british psychological society.

FingandJeffing · 14/06/2011 22:53

Sorry can't work out how to link on my phone.

Nullius · 14/06/2011 22:55

The fact is alot of mental health issues originate in troubled childhoods.

Whilst I dont believe that things such as ADHD are "caused" by bad parenting, I also dont buy that every single mental illness is a chemical inbalance of the brain, that can be convienently fixed by some lovely pills, which in turn make drug companies a fortune.

Greythorne · 14/06/2011 22:56

Nullius
He is an idiot. He ignores all the evidence. He ignores (or denigrates) years wnd years of twin studies. He does not back his ideas up with sound, peer reviewed evidence. His parents were fucking psychoanalysts, FFS.

And I say all that as a SAHM who won't put my DC into a local bursery thing which is available a few hours a week because I want to look after my DC myself.

Doesn't stop him being an idiot.

FingandJeffing · 14/06/2011 22:57

Only an idiot uses the word retard. He should choose his words carefully before he publishes in a national paper.

Nullius · 14/06/2011 23:03

Ok I agree he shouldnt use that word, I have never heard him use it ive only read the books. But it doesnt change that alot of what he says is based on pivotal research that is respected and alot of it makes sense.

He does actually say, that if you get depressed by staying at home then you are better off working, its not like he says once you have a child you should stay indoors till they are 21. His main points are around having one good carer, a "surrogate" mother basically, if you work, and that is all based on Bowlby and attachment theory.

kikid · 14/06/2011 23:04

i read the book, it's all we know really, not new to me anyhow..
it is quite an old book.

minxofmancunia · 14/06/2011 23:19

ha ha ha! his parents were psychoanalysts so he would know what he's talking about I think that says it all, psychodynamic psychoanalysis has very very little in the way of scientific evidence to back it up, it doesn't believe in outcomes and it can go on for years and years....nice little earner me thinks Hmm

I work in child mental health, he's not well thought of at all, mysogynistic, one sided, narcissictic, and surely any sane person would question the viewpoint of a psychologist so eager to be a media monkey? It does seem to be a quirk peculiar to psychologists amongst mental health professionals the need to become "celebrities" and ingratiate themselves in popular culture..

PeterSpanswick · 15/06/2011 00:15

I will happily stay at home with DS if OJ wants to feed and clothe us / pay my half of the mortgage / demonstrate a good example of work ethics / provide a secure future for him. No? Back to work for me, then! Grin

DioneTheDiabolist · 15/06/2011 00:35

He's creepy and narcissistic and the claptrap he regularly spouts on childhood and mothering says nothing to me about my life or that of my son. "Hell for toddlers is other people", yeah yeah OJ, that's why only 2 weeks into the summer holidays my 2yo son asked me when he was going back to school to see his friends. And it's not like he was bored, we were attending a summer scheme.

Some kids love being around other kids, but OJ isn't interested in them as they don't suit his agenda.

igggi · 15/06/2011 06:50

Glad to see this OP - I remember buying this book when ds was little hoping for insight and support and just gettng guilt.
Then I realised some of what he said was clearly rubbish so I got over it.

igggi · 15/06/2011 06:50

Glad to see this OP - I remember buying this book when ds was little hoping for insight and support and just gettng guilt.
Then I realised some of what he said was clearly rubbish so I got over it.

Swipe left for the next trending thread