To wonder why, if pole dancing and lap dancing and being a bunny girl are so empowering, Tony Blair, Pope Bendict, David Cameron, Sarkozy etc., don't do it?

[HerBeX]

Because they are powerful men, are they not?

Why aren't they being further empowerfulised by shaking their arses and stroking their bollocks against poles?

It occurs to me, that Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Mary Robinson, Angela Merkel - all powerful women - didn't lapdance either. How much more powerful would they have been, if they had?

Seriously, how much of a dumb fuck do you have to be, to buy this empowerfulising argument? You know what empowers women? Power. Angela Merkel is powerful. Theresa May is powerful. Hilary Clinton is powerful. Even Kate Middleton has some power, or will have when she is queen consort. None of those women got power, by dressing up in suspenders and rubbing their genitals up and down the laps of men who got a power rush from handing over money for that performance. If you think that gives a woman power, you are in deep, deep denial and simply comforting yourself about women's lack of real power. In that situation, it is the man handing over the money to reward the woman for her sexual display, who has the power, not the woman putting on that sexual display. If she were doing it for her lover, to titillate and turn him on, that might be empowering - but doing it for a punter? Do you honestly not see the difference between doing it for fun, and doing it for money?

Off to bed now, I hope some of the MRA activists around wank themselves to death tonight.

Choose to do it by all means, but please don't pretend it is empowering, except (for some) in the most basic financial sense.

That kind of sexual display connotes and confirms low status in our society. Witness the way quite a few Hollywood actresses refuse to do nude scenes and get body doubles in order to avoid it-I think they recognise that kind of sexual display as, if not demeaning, at least inconsistent with high status and power.

I do Pole FITNESS and it is fab...dont knock it till you've tried it - it's the same as gymnastics where I go anyway and is fantastic and addictive!

I cant stand all the negativity it gets, people are so narrow minded!! Just coz we like pole "fitness" doesnt mean we all girate round a pole rubbing our tits and arses all over it!

Isn't empowerment a subjective thing?

If someone feels empowered by doing a certain act who are any of us to tell them they are wrong/delusional/in denial?

well power certainly isn't subjective.

that wasn't my point.

Because all viewpoints aren't equal? Sometimes people are wrong.

but who has autonomy then?

if someone has a genuine feeling of empowerment, why can't that be respected?

HerBeX I agree with you completely. It's all nonsense. Would I be pleased to see my daughters grow up to be bunnies or pole dancers? No. Do I feel sorry for women who are? Yes.

and out of interest buzzsore- would you say your point can be translated to the abortion debate/ religion?

if not, why not? why just women and their source of empowerment? i am genuinely interested

Great OP but i am now having trouble getting daves balls out of my head

then what is the difference between being empowered and having power Glitterkitten?

Very well said HexBex.

women, on the other hand, are fed some load of total bull that turning men on is somehow meant to empower us. And worse still - some actually buy it.

Maybe it's because as a woman, it's hard not to feel that the world judges your worth by how attractive you are to men. If male attention and approval is such a prize, then perhaps some women who strip for money DO feel empowered because it's confirmation of their sexual allure and, therefore, their worth as a woman. Or something. I know what I mean!

Sybil - i might be more inclined to respond to your points if you were inclined to respond to mine rather than playing with semantics.

besides- i'm sure the dictionary would explain the difference far better than little old me

that's fine then Glitterkitten, the only post of mine whose answer from you I am really interested in is the one I made at Tue 07-Jun-11 13:47, and for reasons I explain in that post I have a very low opinion of people who go to lapdancing clubs, so I don't think I'll bother talking to you again about this or anything else. Bye.

Congratulations the Catinthehat weekly prize for Most Excellent Thread Title has been awarded 3 days early

Great post HerBex.

However, Tonby Blair did audition to be a pole dancer but they said his fake tan was way over the top.

rofl Crackfox.

Bliar's tan was way over the top of what, Crack?

Litttle Sarky didn't get a mention 'cos Carla wouldn't let him out to audition.

In the grand scheme of things I reckon that they're all either up the pole or up themselves, and they've absolutely allowed power to corrupt them.

Totally agree HerBex

Fab idea dear Sybil.

Fucking brilliant post HerBeX, one of the best I've ever read on MN. And I completely agree.

oohyouareawfulbutilikeyou - are you saying that ALL lap dancers and the like CHOOSE to do it?

I would pay serious fucking money to go to a lapdancing club where the employees included the Pope, Tony Blair, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy.

But yes, of course you're right, it's empowering in the same way that wearing 8-inch heels you can't walk in, having a tit job etc is presented as being empowering. Excellent post.

DISCLAIMER
Although I'd pay serious money for the novelty, I do not actually want a lapdance/display of pole-dancing from any of the aforementioned men.

at mental image, esp Cameron.

Agree HerBex

AyeRobot That Alan Partridge scene took on a whole new dimension for me when I realised that David Schneider was in it. Not quite as funny as I first thought. He, and presumably Coogan too, thought it was hilarious.