To wonder why, if pole dancing and lap dancing and being a bunny girl are so empowering, Tony Blair, Pope Bendict, David Cameron, Sarkozy etc., don't do it?

[HerBeX]

Because they are powerful men, are they not?

Why aren't they being further empowerfulised by shaking their arses and stroking their bollocks against poles?

It occurs to me, that Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Mary Robinson, Angela Merkel - all powerful women - didn't lapdance either. How much more powerful would they have been, if they had?

Seriously, how much of a dumb fuck do you have to be, to buy this empowerfulising argument? You know what empowers women? Power. Angela Merkel is powerful. Theresa May is powerful. Hilary Clinton is powerful. Even Kate Middleton has some power, or will have when she is queen consort. None of those women got power, by dressing up in suspenders and rubbing their genitals up and down the laps of men who got a power rush from handing over money for that performance. If you think that gives a woman power, you are in deep, deep denial and simply comforting yourself about women's lack of real power. In that situation, it is the man handing over the money to reward the woman for her sexual display, who has the power, not the woman putting on that sexual display. If she were doing it for her lover, to titillate and turn him on, that might be empowering - but doing it for a punter? Do you honestly not see the difference between doing it for fun, and doing it for money?

Off to bed now, I hope some of the MRA activists around wank themselves to death tonight.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

Nick Clegg lapdancing for David Cameron.

What a disturbing image and yet strangely compelling

[TotallyUtterlyDesperate]

Great first post HerBeX - more applause!

[HerBeX]

And also: "What one person finds empowering another might not." Absolutely. Someone with power, doesn't find doing something that demonstrates their lack of power, empowering. Tony Blair found it empowering to drop bombs on unfortunate people in far away places. John Prescott found it empowering to ride around in jags. David Cameron finds it empowering to dismantle the National Health Service. Nick Clegg finds it empowering to lapdance for David Cameron.

OK scrap the last sentence, have lost train of thought...

[NurseSunshine]

OP I agree with most of your post, however Kate Middleton only got her "power", such as it is, by marrying a powerful man and she will only keep it by toeing the line and being a good a dutiful little wife for the rest of her life.

BettySwollocks I don't think the OP was referring to pole dancing when used as a fitness regime, more the getting your kit off in front of men for money in Spearmint Rhino's or similiar type, and those women definately do gyrate around the pole and rub their tits and arses all over it!

[HerBeX]

Why do you think David Cameron doesn't feel empowered by sexually displaying himself Glitterkitten? D'you think it might be because he's got real power?

[HerBeX]

I like make up, high heels, etc. too.

But I don't wear them for money. That's not power. That's lack of power.

[glitterkitten]

But I enjoy high heels, I enjoy make up, I enjoy playing with my hair etc. That doesn't make me oppressed or trodden upon. I just bloody enjoy it! Its a falicy and indeed patronising to people like me when people like you try to tell me that what I do or do not enjoy is in fact defined by a man/ the male species. I hate flat shoes and shapeless clothes. That's my preference! Women have brains and valid opinions too! And to answer the OP, quite simply, because hat one person finds empowering another might not. Everyone is different.

[sunshineandbooks]

glitterkitten, as a feminist I would argue that if we can tackle the idea that a woman's worth is defined by her level of (male-defined, artificial) attractiveness, a lot of women would cease to want to wear high heels (which are often bloody uncomfortable anyway) or whatever. When men go out for an evening they don't have to do so in incredibly uncomfortable, revealing clothes or spend hours applying makeup and sorting their hair, yet we seem to have no problem finding them attractive.

Does that make sense?

[HerBeX]

LOL I am George Bush

[RamblingRosa]

I'm with you OP. Well said.

Also particularly like your use of "empowerfulising"

[glitterkitten]

i see your point sunshineandbooks, but that argument suggests that the only resolution is the removal of personal choice. can that be a solution?

should high heels and short skirts be frowned upon for the same reason?

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

OP, absolutely.

Although, in 'embarrassing crushes' type posts on here in the past, people have confessed to fancying Tony Blair, Dave Cameron and, if I'm not very much mistaken but I hope I am Sarkozy.

I don't think anyone's admitted to having a hard-on for the Pope though yet.

[sunshineandbooks]

[CeliaDeBohun]

It's like using another person as a wind-up toy or slot machine - no way does the man not have the power in these transactions. I'd also hazard a guess that the punters LOVE being able to turn girls away when they get approached for dances. It's probably the only time in their lives that they get to look pretty girls up and down and reject them. A real life version of the Ugly Bloke bit they used to have on TFI Friday back in the 90s [showing my age]

[turdass]

RIGHT ON SISTER!!!!

Well said op. It's at times like this that I wish there was a like button on MN.

[HerBeX]

LOL LadyClarice but that's the point, isn't it - it's not the aforementioned bollock display that's the attraction of paying to see TB, Pope B etc. - no-one in their right mind would get a sexual frisson from it - it's the sheer power-rush of having a man displaying his body in that abject way for your enjoyment. And that's exactly what men get from women doing that sexual display: a power-rush. And people who can't see the difference between willingly giving your lover a power-rush/ turn on and doing it for money for total strangers with wives at home who are caring for their children and cleaning their underpants, are thick IMO.*

*Apologies to anyone who is such perv that they are actually slightly moist at the thought of Blairbollox - I do not mean to marginalise your peculiar sexuality and will henceforth try and be supportive.

** No apologies for calling you thick, you know who you are.

[limitedperiodonly]

Agree HerBex

AyeRobot That Alan Partridge scene took on a whole new dimension for me when I realised that David Schneider was in it. Not quite as funny as I first thought. He, and presumably Coogan too, thought it was hilarious.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

I would pay serious fucking money to go to a lapdancing club where the employees included the Pope, Tony Blair, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy.

But yes, of course you're right, it's empowering in the same way that wearing 8-inch heels you can't walk in, having a tit job etc is presented as being empowering. Excellent post.

DISCLAIMER
Although I'd pay serious money for the novelty, I do not actually want a lapdance/display of pole-dancing from any of the aforementioned men.

at mental image, esp Cameron.

[5DollarShake]

oohyouareawfulbutilikeyou - are you saying that ALL lap dancers and the like CHOOSE to do it?

[Rhinestone]

Fucking brilliant post HerBeX, one of the best I've ever read on MN. And I completely agree.

[glitterkitten]

Fab idea dear Sybil.

[JamieAgain]

Totally agree HerBex