AIBU to have commented (harshly) on a woman's parenting, at the train st.

[yukoncher]

So, we're all waiting for the train home after a fair, I happened to be sitting on my own at this point.
A woman and her 3/4 yr old lil boy and his dad come sit next to me. The woman is obviouslly really annoyed and dominating the atmosphere, saying 'I've had a fucking nuff of you today' at her child.
So the mood around us (including other people already sitting there) is like; uhh god, everyone goes a bit quiet.
So she goes 'just go ahead one more time, I'll smack ya one', etc
I actually cannot see this lil' boy doing anything wrong at all, just looking bewildered.
So his dad goes to him 'please, I'm asking ya mate just stop it, (and what sounded like;) stop looking at her', please.
Asking the little boy to stop looking at his mum, what the hell?
So the mums swearing and stuff, the boy goes to take a swig of his juice, she wacked the little bottle of juice right out of his mouth and it flew across the train station platform spilling everywhere.
The little boy is just in shock.
I thought he had tears down his face, but in hindsight it could have been splashed juice, so I was fuming.
The boys dad quickly said 'come on mate' and took the boy away.

Well I stood up and bent down in her face and said 'that poor fucking child'. And she looked all shocked and goes 'I'm so sorry'.
I looked at her in disgust and stormed off.
Then other people that were sitting near us also left the area where she was sitting and walked past us commenting on how she knocked the drink out of the poor kids mouth.
My little sister suggested buying the kid another drink, but I thought that was imposing ourselves a bit too much, and the boy had a good dad with him anyway.
I so nearly went back over to have a good chat with her about how the hell she was acting, I was so upset.
But I wanted her to feel ashamed of herself and think about it, so I thought my comment alone would be more effective.

Was that unreasonable of me?

funnyspelling, I remember loads of stuff from age two, three, four. Loads of small, petty argumentative incidents. I remember spilling milk on my high chair tray and being aware my mum and dad were arguing in the next room and feeling worried that they would be cross with me when they came back in and saw the milk.

They weren't abusive parents at all. They just weren't happy and the atmosphere of unhappiness and tension made an impression on me in a way that imprinted numerous memories they probably would never have imagined I would actually recall to adulthood.

I have happy memories too, but if you think it is unlikely a four year old will remember harsh or angry moments, you are kidding yourself, I'm afraid. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.

funny: you "put up with people judging you all the time".

Wonder why that might be?

Back to the OP- of course she shouldn't also have sworn, but the child was no longer in earshot, and it sounds like it's the only sort of language the mother understands. Hopefully she was offended, fucking offended, and might think twice before subjecting her poor child to a similar tirade in future. Doubtful, mind.

Oh and yes, I've sworn in front of the kids. However, it's so rare that they invariably squawk "MUMMY!! Don't SWEAR!" with this face >> and as TheFlyingOnion said, I always apologise.

Behaving badly yourself (not as badly as the woman in the OP did, though) doesn't always mean you're going to set a bad example - in fact admitting it and apologising teaches a valuable lesson.

But, to defend funny here for a moment, we all have moments where we lose our temper. As long as you explain to the children what happened, and why, and that you are sorry, then I don't think there's much more you can do.

I don't mean to demonise funny (I'm sorry if it came across that way).

I just always shake my head mentally when I hear the "kids don't remember" trope.

yes, they might remember but if they remember the apology and the explanation as well then it can't be that horrendous, surely?

I don't agree children always learn the words from adults. As I admitted up thread I swore twice in front of DS. (and no I'm not proud and no I don't need a flaming it was yrs ago anyway) He obviously didn't pick it up or notice. Recently he has been taught swear words at school and signs as well. He came asking me if certain words were OK to say. When I rang the school the HT wouldn't beleive me that the 'nice' child was teaching this - until she spoke to the teacher who said she was aware and dealing with problem. This boys mum is PTA member and typical popular mum.

The other day whilst out my DS and his friends met another bro and sis. Both seemed polite and quiet (as did mum) until I caught them calling my DS a wimp and telling him to drown in the sea and the 7yo spelling swear words out and his 4yo sister saying what they spelt and DS and his friends asking them to stop as its rude.

So I have to say funnybunnies slip of the tongue once is not societies reason children are swearing at school. It's sneakey children who play the I'm so cute card and are clever enough to do it when they think no-one can hear. Pretty much like abusers - they don't advertise the fact.

And I use to think the boy at DS school was lovely and a good friend/ influence on DS until:

1. he refused to join in aspects of DS b'day as he 'doesn't do waiting for things'
2. when I dropped him off his Dad said to DS (only child) 'bet you'd like a borther or sister so you can beat them up wouldn't you'
3. he started teaching others to swear.

YANBU. You are in fact quite brave. I've been in situations like that before (mother publicly swearing or being very aggressive to small children for no apparent reason) and have generally lacked the balls to stand up to them. I rationalize it as being none of my business but in fact its largely because I'm a pussy: if someone can be that openly aggressive to a small child in public what on earth are they going to do to an adult who challenges their parenting. I wish more people would stand up to people like this. As for the swearing, I'm sure its nothing the kid hadn't already heard several times that day.

i'm a bit offended by how many people think those of us with mental health issues might mistreat our children in the manner described by OP.

slip of the tongue once is not societies reason children are swearing at school. It's sneakey children who play the I'm so cute card and are clever enough to do it when they think no-one can hear

but, youarekidding the children don't invent the words - they hear them from adults/older children who have themselves heard them from adults. you are blaming the child for the sins of the parent.

Yanbu. I would of said something to her aswell.

Too many people sit by and let these twats get away with treating their kids like shit.

YADNBU. a big fat resounding congratulations from me, OP. You stuck up for that poor little boy. I am always the scardey-cat too afraid to intervene for fear of a mouthful/slap, but your actions have made me think again. Next time I will speak up for a child. Well done!

I agree with Jeckadeck; I too wish more of us would stand up to these cowardly twats.
As I said upthread, my attempts have been rubbish and ineffectual and I wish I had the presence and gumption to do what the OP did.
I do think she was lucky not to get the punch or spit on the face response, though, or at least a verbal bashing. As someone else said, she clearly came across as just as 'hard' as the other woman, rather than another easy victim.

What you said is its people like funnybunny who's children teach others at school to swear. I'm just saying it's not always the case. And those that have IME are children who know it's wrong (whether they've heard it from parents/ TV etc) and still go into school/ at parks etc do it/ teach others. Funny has admitted to just saying 'fucking'. Well it would be pretty amazing for a child who heard that 1 word once to go into school and teach an array of swear words to others. My DS was taught everything from wanker - fucking - cunt . From the child who is never in trouble at school because knows how to hide his bad behaviour and be the 'piller of society' from the outside.

I was simply pointing out another side of it as I got upset when funnybunny was flamed badly and seemingly judged (she could of course be an axe murderer for all I know ) as I pointed out up thread I had also sworn at DS twice but wasn't treated the same way.

SoupDragon and Hobbgoblin - you still havent really answered the question. What should the OP have done in this situation? What should she have SAID? I am v v curious.

Actually, I have, Bbird. Before you asked the question actually. I did point this out to you earlier.

I think Jacquelinehyde makes a fantastic point.

neuroticmumof3 - I think I was the first person to mention mental health issues and I'm sorry if you feel attacked by it. I have several mental health problems myself and I do know what it feels like to be judged for them. But I do think that certain problems could cause behaviour like the OP describes. For example, I have a condition similar to bipolar and I am terrified that, in a really unstable mood, I will do something incredibly harsh and unfair to my children.

funnyspelling

Please don't make ASSumptions about me.

I have plenty of stress in my life.
I have a seriously mentally ill mother who is NASTY, I've fostered my younger siblings, on off since forever. My son has special needs which cause him to scream on the floor in public at 4 1/2 yrs old. I've stood in the freezing cold being 9 months pregnant for 40 minutes while DS lay on the floor in the middle of town refusing to get up. I've certainly been judged.
I've sworn in front of my kids (which I regret of course).

Did you even read my posts?
I said at first I thought she was having a rough day.

However, I realised that she was being ABUSIVE towards that small child. And there's NO excuse for that. For a good 5 minutes she was threatening him, saying how 'fucked off' she was with him today.
He wasn't allowed to look at her.
I have a child who IS ACTUALLY a handful and acts as what people would call 'very naughty' because of SN.
This little boy was doing nothing wrong.
He seemed like an angel compared to others, she had a doting father taking care of the boy too. And she wacked that bottle from his face and he was mortified.
As soon as the child was out of the way, damn right I snapped at her.
I'm sick of ANYONE emotionally abusing children.
I won't stand for seeing it any longer, I've seen it throughout my life and always been too shy to speak up.

Sorry, can someone just clarify, is it being said that a person with mental health issues should be pardoned over being abusive towards a child?

You were entirely reasonable. How troigarcons could make that comment I do not know. Yes, as parents we are sometimes under extreme pressure we might be depressed or ill even but that does not condone treating a child like that. I was in a similar situation a couple of years back and witnessed a couple dragging a child out of a car, hitting him across the head and throwing a drink in his face. No, I didn't know what had happened to precede that but I called the police and they responded. It was vile and abusive. My partner was horribly abused as a child and no one did anything to help. You did the right thing and the mum ought to feel ashamed. That is the appropriate way to feel after behaving like that.

yukoncher I agree totally with you about the difference in swearing/ losing your temper with a child who is being difficult and what you saw. I do think hitting a bottle away from a child is more physical abuse as said child could get injured. Imagine if it had cut his lip or she'd misjudged her aim and actually smacked him around the head?

I get what your saying about the difference in what you saw - which was a scared child doing nothing at the time and an angry mum.

I hope you saying something will help this family.

If you can stand it after all the beer yesterday you should have a tonight.

youarekidding
Thankies :)
Mmh wouldn't mind a small glass of californian fruity red wine :)
Of course, if I had a glass of wine with dear husband tonight, that would be so 'oh we have no troubles in life, upper middle class, just don't understand anyone who has stress' of us, wouldn't it? :-p
Argh think again!

TakeItOnTheChins Regardless of whether the parent has had a bereavement, been buggered by a baboon, learned that they have one leg 6 inches shorter than the other, lost their job, got Malaria or any of the other 4,000,000 things that might have gone wrong in their life - that does NOT make it alright to whack a drink out of her son's mouth or to talk to him the way she did. I don't care if she's got the beloved "MH issues" either

I think you can only say such a statement if you yourself are perfect and the perfect mother. You would also need to have had mental health problems yourself and dealt with them perfectly and never for a second exibited behaviour that was any less then perfect, quite a challenge with mental health problems actually. But then you are perfect so you should find it easy.

YANBU. I just don't get this argument that we should all just stand by and watch adults abusing children because we don't know the circumstances behind it. There are ALWAYS circumstances behind violence and abuse: most people in prison have mental health problems, most violent abusive people have had pretty shit childhoods themselves.

Of course we need to understand the root causes of abusive behaviour, and try to support people more effectively. But we also have to establish and maintain certain standards of behaviour in public places, don't we? I don't think that undermines us being understanding of the stresses some mothers endure. In fact, it may help: knowing that she is transgressing the boundaries of normal behaviour may help this woman seek help.

Well. I don't actually see any real purpose in intervening like this except for the OP to express her righteous indignation. The proposition that it would shame the mother into changing her ways seems to me at the very least fanciful, if not rather grandiose.

The child had already been removed from his mother and wasn't actually being verbally abused or roughly handled when you spoke up and father was in charge. I think it would be different if the mother was alone. And to intervene when the abuse is actually happening.

Moreover, OP you have no idea if you have made matters worse for this child.

There could be 1001 reasons why this mother was behaving like this and you can only speculate after the event.