AIBU to have commented (harshly) on a woman's parenting, at the train st.

[yukoncher]

So, we're all waiting for the train home after a fair, I happened to be sitting on my own at this point.
A woman and her 3/4 yr old lil boy and his dad come sit next to me. The woman is obviouslly really annoyed and dominating the atmosphere, saying 'I've had a fucking nuff of you today' at her child.
So the mood around us (including other people already sitting there) is like; uhh god, everyone goes a bit quiet.
So she goes 'just go ahead one more time, I'll smack ya one', etc
I actually cannot see this lil' boy doing anything wrong at all, just looking bewildered.
So his dad goes to him 'please, I'm asking ya mate just stop it, (and what sounded like;) stop looking at her', please.
Asking the little boy to stop looking at his mum, what the hell?
So the mums swearing and stuff, the boy goes to take a swig of his juice, she wacked the little bottle of juice right out of his mouth and it flew across the train station platform spilling everywhere.
The little boy is just in shock.
I thought he had tears down his face, but in hindsight it could have been splashed juice, so I was fuming.
The boys dad quickly said 'come on mate' and took the boy away.

Well I stood up and bent down in her face and said 'that poor fucking child'. And she looked all shocked and goes 'I'm so sorry'.
I looked at her in disgust and stormed off.
Then other people that were sitting near us also left the area where she was sitting and walked past us commenting on how she knocked the drink out of the poor kids mouth.
My little sister suggested buying the kid another drink, but I thought that was imposing ourselves a bit too much, and the boy had a good dad with him anyway.
I so nearly went back over to have a good chat with her about how the hell she was acting, I was so upset.
But I wanted her to feel ashamed of herself and think about it, so I thought my comment alone would be more effective.

Was that unreasonable of me?

wonders if you would have said something if you didnt have a drink in you

YANBU

But the word you are looking for is 'little', NOT 'lil'

Seeing 'lil' crop up on mumsnet is making my eyeballs itch, can we please bring an end to this ? I thank you.

I think it's a bit harsh to say the dad was being pathetic snickers. I would say he handled the situation quite well in that he didn't get into a stand up row with the mum, which would have frightened him more, and when it was clear the situation was getting worse he took the boy away to comfort him. His focus was on the boy rather than on the mum and that was totally right IMO.

Whatever her behaviour, you were unnecessarily rude and aggressive.

Thanks, for the support.

Really didn't know if I did the right thing.

Because, I've not acted perfectly with my kids in the past, for arguing with DP while they can hear, swearing, being annoyed, etc, hate myself for doing that, but sometimes it happens, so I assumed this woman was in that rare state at first, perhaps after a stressful day.
But then it became clear that she was taking it one step too far, with the child not actually doing anything wrong, and wacking the bottle out of his mouth could have hurt him, certainly scare him. Could not believe the father was pleading with DS not to look at her. Dear god.
The child could not do anything right.

I was raging, standing about 20 metres from her from then on, waiting for our train, just watching her. Saw the little boy come out again to the platform and was happily playing with his dad after that, and she just sat sulking.

Hopefully that was one of her worst moments and theyre usually both good parents.

Such a lovely little boy he seemed.

Yes, SoupDragon. And the world would be a much better place if everybody stood by and watched as a small child was being ripped to pieces by his scumball of a mother.

tallulah
you're right to wonder.
If I hadn't had a drink I would have quietly seethed, lol and wished I'd had the confidence to speak up.

Troisgarcons - what sort of previous behaviour from the child would make it OK for the mum to smack the drink out of his mouth and his hand in a pretty aggressive way? Or would make it OK for her to swear at him just for looking at her?

If she'd been angry with him without being abusive or aggressive, that would be different - as you say, we don't know what behaviour went on beforehand. But I can't think of anything my children have done that would make it OK for me to do what the OP describes.

You are a fool OP and totally U. What utterly misguided action you took.

Yes, you could have inflamed the situation for the family later, no you didn't protect the child, no you did not protect the mother emotionally AND THAT IS WHAT ULTIMATELY WILL BE THE BEST PROTECTION FOR THE CHILD unless other agencies are involved and have the knowledge to remove or protect him should she fail to get a handle on her own situation.

Whatever you think, OP. that woman is the boy's mother and he loves her. He wants her to be stable and happy and respected by others so that she can love him. If that is an impossibility then there are ways of dealing with that situation, but none of them involve making the mother of this child look and feel like a piece of shit on the floor.

Elevate the emotional welfare of the mother and you are taking care of the child.

Hobbgoblin would you take the same approach if it was the father abusing the child and the mother saying "come on mate?" Genuine question as I find your response astonishing.

YANBU. Whatever the reason she was out of order and it sounds from her apology that she realises this. I know none of us wants to condemn other parents for good reasons, but sometimes I think this isn't helpful where parents are being really out of order.

The only part of this I can't understand is the Mother's reply to you "I'm so sorry".

That's just weird. Most parents (even decent ones) would have told you to butt out and mind your own business I'm sure...but especially someone as wound up as she was

I don't think you did anything wrong

I think you did the right thing to intervene, but to do it without swearing would be even better.

I don't think children are the private property of their parents and I think we should intervene if we see a child being abused.

And what she did to her child was abusive. I don't care how much he had wound her up before this happened, no parent should ever do that to their child. There is no excuse. If parents can't control their temper, they need to get help or their child needs to grow up with other adults. If this carries on he will be turning around in a couple of years and doing the same to other people, including his mum. Because this is what he is being taught about how to behave, about how to deal with unpleasant emotions.

I think if more people were prepared to intervene, we would have less cases like Victoria Climbie, Khyra Isahq, etc, etc, etc.

As far as the father/mother issue goes, if in a similar situation with a man my aim would be the same. I may not intervene directly in order to preserve my/my family's safety but I would perhaps make a few phone calls if the event was serious.

I can't comment on what ifs or the many versions of a scenario, but if it was safe to do so I'd do the same with a man if my choice was to intervene at all - and it wouldn't ALWAYS be the case that I'd feel compelled to involve myself.

There is a reason that professionals don't shout the abuser down or make them feel like shit.

yes, hobgoblin. And there is a reason why the 'professionals' are forever making monumental fuck-ups when it comes to the care of children. You dont work in social services by any chance do you?

hobbgoblin, what would you have done?

My first partner was awful to me, and I remember when my first son was a few days old, he burped up sick while we were waiting for a bus and (ex)DH shouted at me so loud to clean up his sick, as I apparently wasn't doing it fast enough.
I picked up my baby and walked away, but it was so weird, everyone around us just looking down and not saying anything. That was so isolating for me, I wandered if I was going mad, because noone else really commented on him being in the wrong.
I left him a month later.

I wish someone had turned round to him then and told him what a prick he was being, I really do. Because he seemed to have no idea how he was acting was wrong.

You sound rough

YANBU. I'll also admit to having sworn at/ in front of DS in a moment of anger once or twice but I think your right she was doing it without an obvious immediate trigger and continuing it.

The only thing I would perhaps suggest (not excusing her btw) is that the mum is always made an outsider. The dad is all 'mate this' 'mate that' with the son and like you admit you were brave because you had drink inside you the drink made her lash out.

I hope you saying something hopes them evaluate their whole family dynamic.

I once interferred. On beach 25°c and mum with 3 children (i would guess 4-8 ish). DC's having to sit down and stay close whilst mum laid down in bikini with eyes closed sunbathing. Kids had small water bottle each with drink. They finished it (been there 2 hours or so by then) and asked for more. Told no more. They began getting whingy with her and she took a sip from her large 2ltr bottl of coke whilst saying no more, stop fucking whinging and when asked no you can't fucking have coke how many fucking times do I have to fucking tell you.
My friend and I were torn between moving away and saying something. So I just asked politely if the children would some some squash. (i take about 3 ltrs with me). She told me to fuck off and mind my own. I just replied usually I would but her children were thirsty, I had juice if they needed it and judging by her language she'd had enough of them whining for more. She looked like she was about to give myself and friend what for but relented and her DC's played beautifully with ours for another 2 hours. We were happy to share our juice and snacks with them - in exchange to see them run about smiling as children should.

I work with vulnerable families and I completely disagree with hobgoblin's comments

There is positive, non-judgemental support out there for families like this one. But sadly, resources being limited, unless that mother actually inflicts some concrete harm on the child, the only way she is going to gain access to that support is for her to ASK for it, via the HV/GP/child's nursery/local children's centre.

Being told by a stranger that her behaviour is shocking and unacceptable may be the start of that process. Or it may go over her head entirely. It is unlikely to make matters worse. It's a shame people always think "oh, I might make things worse". They may well make things better. The change has to start somewhere and often it needs a catalyst.

You shouldn't have sworn. But you were right to intervene and remind that mother that other people can see what she is doing, and that her child is a person with rights.

Little parts of this situation make me think that your response was unreasonable.

1. The Dad quietly removed the child and didn't criticise the Mum. This makes me wonder if the Mum was going through something really awful or had the day from hell or had some mental health issues. That doesn't excuse her behaviour but makes input from a stranger unhelpful.

1. The Mum told you she was sorry. This also makes me think her behaviour was uncharacteristic and that she had temporarily broken down.

1. The fact that the child was later playing happily with his Dad (I realise that you didn't see this till later). The situation reminds me of my friend's husband who has quite severe depression. Sometimes he screams at or refuses to speak to his sons. Obviously they are initially devestated but my friend explains to them that 'Daddy is in a bad place' or 'Daddy has an illness in his head that makes him sad and cross sometimes' and then they cope very well.

If the child hadn't had another parent with him to remove him it would have been different.

i once told a mother off for grabbing her son and shaking him and telling him to shut the fuck up or she would punch him one in the face

i was so shocked she was so aggressive, but i did handle it wrong i jsut reacted to her aggression. she was with her sister who was laughing at her and told her to calm down. as she got off the train she spat in my face and threatened to punch my face in if i saw her again. her children (ages from about 5 to 10) just looked ashamed i felt so sorry for them. i was with ds who was in his pram luckily he was asleep

you can not jsut turn a blind eye, my friend said you have no idea what is going on in her life that is true but that behaviour is not acceptable towards an adult so why is it towards a child and being a parent does not give the the right to be abusive toward your children and that is abuse

bbird, there are far better ways to have dealt with the mother than aggressively bending down into her face and swearing at her whilst fuelled by "a couple of beers"

I never said that the OP should have simply watched as a small child was "ripped to pieces".

Do you really think it is best and acceptable to swear right in someone's face? I don't and I think the word would be a better place if other people thought it unacceptable too.

lol at hobgoblin coming out with all the jargon

and not actually saying anything

i wonder if Baby P ever dreamed of getting away from his mother, i assume so as his real father said he screamed hysterically when it was time to go back :(