to suggest that silence is passively condoning bigotry?

[Glitterknickaz]

Over the past few days I have been posting on a thread about cuts to DLA and services for those who have disabilities and their carers. As a parent carer to three children with disabilities this is extremely relevant to me and something I am very passionate about.

In case anyone is interested, this current government appears determined to decimate benefits and services to those who have disabilities. Many will become homeless and people are committing suicide because of it. Whilst many accepts that some cuts have to happen personally I don't agree that disability benefits should be the first things to go.

As I hold that position, as my family is actually facing poverty, I have stated so on here. A small, yet significant minority has posted some downright disgusting comments towards me, calling me selfish (for wanting to stay on topic), twisting my posts to suit their own agenda and generally being downright vile. There was also the suggestion of eugenics as a solution to the cost of disability benefits (which is a very small portion of the welfare pot).

I gladly gave my personal situation up for scrutiny as I have nothing to hide, yet unfortunately certain posters still felt it was acceptable to post in a particularly disgusting way.

What upsets me is that if comments such as these had been levelled at ethnic minorities, persons of a different religion or sexuality for example posters here would have stepped in. Majorly. What I was met with was largely silence. People avoided the topic and I'm not sure why - perhaps because it wasn't 'naice' or 'right on'.

I just want you to know that by saying nothing you are saying that this kind of posting is acceptable. Yet after the panorama showing people were up in arms - do you not realise that it is people like the people shown in panorama that are going to be directly affected by the policies being driven through now?

It happens all the time with threads where it turns downright disablist. I'm interested in knowing why people condone these kinds of threads with their silence in this way.

Disability could happen to any one of us, at any time. It is not within our control. It is not a case of 'it wouldn't happen to me'. I don't think it's such a terrible thing to ask that you (the collective you) challenge this unacceptable kind of posting.

AIBU to suggest then that this silence makes disablism acceptable on these boards? And AIBU to ask why you keep your silence?

I have very disabled people come in that have had to fight to be on ESA and we have a battle with them to get them to claim DLA, they are just to scared. These are people who need the money for extra food, transport and heating or even a decent mattress, not big TV's and the crap you here spouted. There are more often than not people who have worked all their lives.

I had a lady come in who was devastated by having to give up work in a hospital (low pay) because of a painful debilitating and worstening condition. The job centre (JC) reluctantly (we fought for it) awarded her ESA, with the condition that she had monthly interviews at the JC to 'help' return to work . The stress of the interviews was increasing her pain, she had full medical support, but 'conditions' were placed on her that were making her health even worse. Apparantly she was being spoken to like crap at the JC, also. When the last thing that she had ever wanted to do was to come out of work but the pain and inability to 'grip' forced her to.

On the day when several thousand people with disabilities marched on the streets of London the Minister for Disabled people, Maria Miller, stood there on news programmes sneering about the number of "drug addicts and alcoholics" there are claiming DLA. She refused to go out to meet the marchers, which I believe to be very much in her remit.

Dominic Littlewood on the BBC sneering and gurning about 'free cars'.
The Express, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, all recently have carried stories on disabled benefit fraud. Actually, the rate (as published by the department for work and pensions) is less than half a percent, and that is accounting for payment errors as well as fraud. The number of people claiming DLA hasn't risen in the 18 years it has existed, it has stayed largely static. It's all spin in the media so that the public accepts these abhorrent cuts.

Did you know they've sneaked in under Universal Credits and will be taking £200 a month from us whilst saying in the mainstream press that those with disabilities will be no worse off under Universal Credit? It's all very well making being in work pay but what if you can't be in work?

They can take the money away from my family, but both me and my husband will still need to be full time carers. Only we won't have a roof over our head, or food.

Get used to seeing people with disabilities in shop doorways and cardboard boxes because it is going to happen.

Oh, and I wasn't able to take part in that march as I couldn't secure alternative care for the kids. How many others weren't there for similar reasons?

They won't achieve fully what they want to, there is a large campaign behind the scenes and support being gathered against the proposals.

The Equality Bill won't go completley, it cannot unless we leave the EU. The right to appeal also won't go. The problem will that is you need to be awarded it in the first place. I would urge everyone claiming to not listen to what they are told by the JC and get advice from advice agencies.

Mencap as well as Scope has already had some of the proposals moved back to 2014. Those in certain jobs and charities have been asked to anaylise the 'unirversal credit' and give feedback, it is under review, also. It will cause poverty and homelessness, but under the UN rights of the child and other EU directives, luckily they cannot go to far (otherwise they would)>

Honestly?
This government already engage in illegal practises against benefits claimants.
I don't see the EU stopping them.

These are people with LD's and MH, no savings, not the sort of case that will get legal aid so unless someone provides a decent sized pot of money then there is no redress. When organisations such as the one i volunteer in come across them all we can do is ak the claimant to take it to there MP. Local MP's are not generally listened to or the publicity (such as we have highlighted) has done such a good job 'the public' don't beleive what they are told is really happening.

I never know whether to cry or scream when I read threads like this. I am one of those Oh so lucky people who has never been in the dreadful position that those who need to claim benefits have.

I just get so angry that we are surrounded by the "holier than thou" who have always had the ability to "manage" to live without benefits. We are the lucky ones even if we have had to "struggle" in low paid jobs or not very satisfactory housing. Our "struggle" is nothing compared to the people who have to fight for everything they need just to survive.

Those who "manage" to live without benefits would do better to thank providence they have been so lucky and to always "think on" the possibility that they may not always be in that position. As was said above we are all, always, only one day away from that possibility.

Agree agree agree. The thing is everyone thinks it won't happen to them. They don't even think that they may not be able to work because of becoming disabled or having a child who is or who becomes disabled.
Trouble is it can happen in a flash... To anyone!

And then what do you do?
It is bad enough being in the position of not being able to provide for yourself and your own, being under the constant stress that a life less abled brings... And then just when you don't need it, everyone and their dog has an opinion on your life and what you are or are not entitled to.

When I say entitled to, I mean food, a roof over your head, warmth, the basic stuff. No-one in this awful position is asking for a high living lifestyle.

The DLA firms, certainly for child DLA are difficult to fill in, upsetting ( because you have to contastantly go over what your child compared to another child of their age can't do), you have to have evidence from third parties (professional), again going over what your child can't do. And then you may or may not get a little bit of help towards your extra costs.

We recieve DLA for ds.. What we get a week is less than I used to earn in a day before I had to stop work and care for him. It's a drop in the pond, it doesn't cover the extra therapies/ equipment he needs.. That is like gold dust to obtain on the NHS.
And here's another thing, with intervention, good care etc etc, DS will be able to become a future tax payer and not be a drain on society. But without these things he will never work or possably live independantly.

And it's not just DLA that causes bitterness, it's things like education and TAs.. Etc etc all of which looks like it's going to be cut.
Paving the way for a life of future poverty.

But it's okay to DLA bash ... Because it's not you.( said generally to those whoso the bashing).

Do you know, eight years ago the thought of having a family member with a disability didn't even occur to me either?

Now I have three.

It really could happen to anyone, and I'm damned sure that if you got to that position and faced losing everything because of it there would be outcry.

But actually, as it stands on here, nobody would listen. You'd get laughed at and sniped at by a few trolls but that'd be about it.

Absolutely.. If it happens to ( the general) you, there will be no outcry, nobody will actually care tbh, the isn't much help out there and then you can have the sniping nasty uneducated remarks to boot.

No-one ( barring that tiny half a percent ish) of people who claim DLA actually want to claim it.. Many many don't, I didn't for ages.
Your cost WILL be higher because that is the nature of the beast.

I now don't post that much at all on MN, because for some reason disability bashing is at worst deemed okay, at best is seen as education!
Very little is done about the vile posts and it seems that it is becoming far more acceptable.

Once again, largely this thread has responses LARGELY from those whose lives are affected by the issue at hand.

I'm wondering why that is.

Are people afraid of disability?

Yes they are glitter

Glitter, I think that you're bang on the money, I also think that a lot of people do stay quiet because they use MN for light relief.

Both reasons are equally valid.

I'll take your point further. Imagine your horror if you were a 'ginge'. Um. I believe you'll see the latest incarnation of Doctor Who mentioned his relief at not being a 'ginge' when he came to life last season.

But every silly fucker with half a brain cell thought that was funny.

Maybe I do have a sense of humour failure (I'm half Jewish with black curly hair, btw. No ginge in me. But the other half comes from Nazi Germany so it's just win-win in my house) but I teach German and wipe the frigging FLOOR with kids who think they can have a pop at Hitler/Germans/whatever in my hearing. That also goes for homophobia, racism (GOD HELP any twathead who makes racist gypsy/romany/traveller comments in my hearing) and anything else that is unacceptable.

Things that are not acceptable need to be challenged, and IMHO (which you may have realised, isn't particularly humble. Sorry. And whatever...) silence is not acceptable at all.

I didn't see your thread. BUt I'd have probably cheered you on. I fucking hate the Tories. When right wing think tanks like the center for policy studies can come on and say that the ToryLib government is not fair on 'minorities', the disabled and WOMEN, FFS, then it behoves ALL of us to speak up.

Which I love doing. I love the sound of my own voice, me. (who'd have thought?...)

I'm great value at dinner parties, btw.

Yeah, my daughter's ginge, rather beautiful imho.
As for the light relief.... that goes out of the window at racist, sexist and homophobic postings, people do challenge it extremely voiciferously.

Disablism should be equally as unacceptable as the above. I'm not asking posters to learn reams of info on disability, nobody is able to take in all that knowledge. All I ask is that disablism is challenged on this board in the same way as other isms.

couldn't agree more. As said, I'm a teacher. We have about 30% with SEN in our school and so I, along with other teachers, am well versed in 'isms' in general.

But as to the point 'are people scared of disability', well yes, I think that they are. And I suspect that because people with disabilities are probably less able to recognise that they're being laughed at / able to respond, than would 'usually' be the case, they're an easy target.

Which brings us back to your original point of it being up to others to challenge such crapulous behaviour when we see it.

Come on. What did you expect - a Tory minister to show compassion? Excuse me whilst I piss my pants with laughter!!

God. I am SUCH a humourless bitch?!!!!

Glitter - I didn't see your thread. And I have no close family reason to protect DLA and the like but I'm with you all the way. There needs to be more investment for the disabled (and their families) not less.

I'm also with Beesimo and LostMyIdentity in that I won't stand for any racist comments on threads either (of which there seem to be a lot recently, especially against Romanies and Travellers). I have recently decided to avoid those threads as they upset me and I felt I was wasting my life standing up for minorities (my own, in this case) against bigotted fuckwits.

Nah. Tories just don't show compassion, that element is entirely missing from their DNA. As it is from some of the right wing trolls on here.

I just wish they were challenged more, that's all. The racist or sexist ones are.

Thing is I don't ever stop challenging those who behave appallingly on here because I do know that people are reading this stuff, and I don't want them believing it. That all disabled people are scroungers. The right wing press are really having a field day at the moment, it was even on HIGNFY last week.

LOL I can't believe you just wrote that!! HIGNFY is sometimes little more than a mouthpiece for Hislop's rantings. He says a LOT of stuff that is out of order and goes unchallenged. All that Merton does is sit there and look mildly perplexed.

Um. Are we being 'rightist'. Oh dear. slaps wrist

Nah, I don't believe it of all Tories. Just this government.

I actually quite like Boris Johnson. He's said stuff against housing benefit policy. I named a rabbit after him for that.

Would any poster here tolerate the following post about their family (it's currently in Telly Addicts if you want to see it in all its glory)

"Catmilk Sun 05-Jun-11 10:31:12
They should just call it 'Roll Up & See The Freaks (But We Must All Pretend It's About Their Brave Struggle & How Normal They Actually Are)"

Is this kind of language acceptable when referring to human beings?

I posted a couple of times on the other thread, but then got too upset to say any more. People are correct about the fear of disability. When my DH became mentally and physically disabled, people crossed the street to avoid me but stopped the DSs on the way home from school to ask how we were. So called friends who we had known for decades stopped speaking to us and refused to return calls. In the end, I took a job miles away and we moved to start again. The DSs made new friends, but we never have - there is such a stigma around mental health and disability.

Glitterknickas I feel your pain. I don't tend to multiple post on threads about disability etc but I always make a point of adding one post to show my support. I am fortunate to be in good health, as are my DC, but my DSis has a child with SN and my aunt has autism and I am aware at just how fragile our lives are. There but for the grace of god...

I find it depressing that prejudice and hostility seem to be hugely on the increase both in RL and here on MN. I think it is a side effect of the recession and although I will probably get flamed for being a lefty I think it is in part the divide-and-conquer tactics being used by the Coalition. I am taken up with defending feminism and being a single mother. You are taken up with defending disability rights. We really all need to work together.

Sadly, a major side effect of the divide-and-conquer approach is that there are many people who are struggling (but not being hit as hard as the minority groups) who tend to just keep their heads down for fear of being hit next. On MN I think BoF has a valid point as well - there are days when I completely avoid relationships and AIBU for example.

Keep up the fight. You've raised my awareness so there must be others.