to pronounce the champagne Moet mow-ett as opposed to Mow-ay and have a ridiculously stupid mini-row about it?

[GetOrf]

Disclaimer - I am not a poncetastic twat. Get that in before you lot accuse me.

At MILs last night, couple of SILs there. My MIL loves champagne, it was a distinct luxury when she was younger and I don't think she bought a bottle until she was in her 40s. Now she is making up for lost time and I always buy her a decent bottle for her birthdays, mothers day etc.

We were talking about different brands, and she was remembering the different ones she has tried, I said that a cheapish one which I had bought from Sainsbos (Charles something) was rated in the Sunday Times as being better than the more recognised brands such as Moet etc.

At which point my SIL laughed scoffingly and said 'I would have thought you would have known that the French don't5 pronounce the t on the end of the word, it is pronounce Mow-AY' (said in full on condescending terms).

I said fuck off dicksplash 'no it is pronounced Mo-ETT, theword is Dutch anyway'

She carried on 'no it's not, champagne is French not dutch, next you will be saying Edam comes from Wales'

She really got on my tits.

Do italians pronounce 'pizza' with a short 'i' instead of 'pete-za'? Because my Mum used to and I've always wondered whether she was crazy or not?

Sorry - should that be Italians...

How do you pronounce latte?

Most people seem to say lartay. I say latay.

I didn't know about 'Mowett' though I did know about the rule of sounding the t after a vowel. I prefer Veuve Cliquot anyway :)

I don't say choritho though I would try and pronounce it correctly if I were in Spain. I mean Thpain.

I can't roll my rs to save my life.

I'd prefer some octopodes if you don't mind

tbh I don't think the "rennow" that you hear people saying sounds any less, or more, ignorant than Rennolt - it just sounds like someone who speaks English saying the word, which it is! Yes, there is an agreed anglicisation of "Renault", but that's all it is. Don't forget that it's not just the "r", it's also the "en" and the "ault" that sound completely different if you are speaking French. But one doesn't have to apologise for speaking English, so I think it's OK to say Rennow, Porsh, Gouda, Lattay and all the other words that seem to be prone to hypercorrection... I even say panini for one bread roll, even though I know it's "wrong". So shoot me!

'She keeps a 'Mowett' et Chandon
In a pretty cabinet...'

Latte simply means milk in Italian and is pronounced Lah-tte. There is no accent on the e, so it is not pronounced Lat-tay.

Someone once told me that the English roll their Rs at the front of the mouth, the Germans in the middle and the French at the back - this sounds like the beginning of a joke without a punchline but it's actually quite helpful advice for correct pronunciation when you are learning these languages.

In general, though, English people don't do a lot of R-rolling.

slf, if I shoot you, it will have to be with a Walther PPK like Jimmy Bond. How should I pronounce it whilst cackling evilly over your fate...?

Being German (and speaking French) I'd say the German and French 'r' is excactly the same. We both say 'gutteral' 'R's at the back.

So rouge and rot have excactly the same 'r' sound at the beginning (whereas the english pronounciation of these words sounds quite different, with a rolling 'r').

You mean Freddie Mercury got it wrong in Killer Queen?.... "She keeps Moet and Chandon in her pretty cabinet..." etc. Wait til I see him....

Polish "r" is at the front, too, in case you want to order some Pierogi!!

SLF's famous last words ... "it's effin Paypaykarr",

No Cogito, I think he pronounces it pretty much correctly! I'll have to check now.

@slf: I call them pie-rogs...

would you let me finish my panini first?

It would probably have mozzarella in it too. Would I have to pronounce that like an Italian or would I be allowed the English version?

@ bappusss

I don't know. Assuming I take on the mantle of an ueber patriotic British spy [look no umlaut key] I may decide to be lenient if you are eating a nicely assimilated mozzarella panini and say politely 'please don't point that pee pee kay at me....'

Bappusss sounds a bit rude! Bagpusss (and I was so pleased to notice the extra s as well)

and Mercury definitely is in the Moway camp...

oh, Okay oncle, I shall do my naycest miss moneypenny. Sorry, that should have been Mish Munnaypennay...

proper choir singers shoudl roll Rs so they don't sound like Ws.
excpet in my choir, it's Ws all the way

I make my Junior Chorister practise rolling his Rs.
he's getting good at it, but it's like an alien concept to him, poor boy.

This is a most excellent thread!

Lots of people commenting on the trema in "Moet" and saying that it means the consonant is pronounced.

It means nothing of the sort. it means that two adjacent vowels are pronounced as two vowels and not as the combined sound those two vowels would normally make.

Link to French wiki on the subject here.

fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%C3%A9ma

It is also used in names of foreign origin. Like, apparently, Moet (and confess I always pronounced that wrong until today. But not because of the trema ...)

oh and re 'r' rolling, I go to a teeny tiny church, and my Mum brought her friend along. The friend used to sing with a city choir and sang so loudly, rolling every 'r' like the Vienna Boy's Choir that I thought I would crack a rib giggling. It's the kind of church where everyone mumbles cheerfully along and no-one has a clue about professional singing techniques. Talk about out of place...