to bevery disappointed that only 63% of women can DRIVE!! ffs

[JunoWatt]

its like saudi arabia here
ONLY JUST OVER HALF OF US! GET A LICENCE LADIES

I agree with the OP, quite shocking that so few women actually drive. OK so I can see that the city dwellers may not, but there are an awful lot of women who don't live in big cities and have public transport on their doorstep. And yes, it is liberating. My 79 yr old mother doesn't drive and is virtually housebound and totally reliant on everyone else who does drive to get to the shops because she lives in a village. Frankly, life would be hell without being able to drive. And those who don't bother to learn to drive always seem very happy to rely on those of us who do do it.

Plus, I don't have to engage in that competitive stuff about cars, so when friends say 'ohhh I've got a new i can lok truly blank and say it means sod all to me

Cerealqueen - amen to that. It drives me potty. I truly don't give a shit what car someone has, none of them look any more appealing to me than any other and they're bloody boring. If it gets you from A to B then surely that's all that matters.

I also applaud Nesta. I am sick to death of people looking down on me because I don't drive. No-one bitched about my friend with Epilepsy not driving so why bitch about me not driving? I have a medical condition too, in my case my medical conditions do prevent me from driving. Some people can drive safely with them, some can't. I am an adult and I have the intelligence to judge for myself whether or not I should learn to drive. There are lots of reasons why I shouldn't learn, therefore I haven't. Perhaps one day I'll try again, perhaps I won't. But that's my business and my decision only. No-one elses.

I was so glad when my Dyspraxia was diagnosed as it stopped the constant onslaught from DP and the in-laws that my life would be ruined if I didn't learn to drive. So far it hasn't been.

So, why don't I drive?

• medical conditions (dyspraxia, hypermobility and fibromyalgia) make driving difficult and painful and potentially very dangerous given that I almost killed 6 people in 9 lessons)

• I probably wouldn't be able to drive independently (I never once managed to release the handbrake myself, I'm not strong enough) whereas I am perfectly capable of independently getting a bus, tube, train, tram or taxi. Or walking.

• I have a fear of driving stemming from the horrible driving lessons I had not knowing I had the 3 conditions above and not understanding why my driving instructor was reducing me to tears every lesson

• I live in London - there is no need to drive in the area I live - I'm 15 mins from Zone 1

• I have £20k of University debts... I simply cannot afford to learn even if I wanted to. I would need a larger number of lessons than average due to the medical conditions.

• Now I've been diagnosed all the people who told me they'd take me out to learn outside of paid lessons including my Mother and various close friends and DP have told me they won't do that anymore as they don't think people like me should drive

• Even if I could learn to drive I couldn't afford to run a car anyway

My mum is 74 lives on the edge of a town in Norfolk. She has never learnt to drive (but then my dad didn't either). She has a very active life, gets the bus into town most days.

I live in London my oh drives to work out of town we cannot afford to run to cars and he runs me about like a cab driver so never is an issue and dose not tmoan if I need to jump in a taxi

When dcs were toddlers it often occurred to me that the only reason life was occasionally difficult for me as a non-driver was that my voice didn't count for as much as the voice of the drivers in making decisions about days out. So at toddler group instead of going to the perfectly pleasant local park, arrangements would be made to meet in a park 5 miles away. Instead of using the local swimming pool, we'd go to the one in the next town- for no particular reason except it didn't make a lot of difference to the drivers and I didn't like to be the one putting spanners in the wheel all the time, so I kept quiet.

When you live with another non-driver, these problems don't crop up: you go to the nearest park, or to the one near a bus route, and have fun there. Yes, in a sense you might be limited if you can't get to every single park within a 50 mile radius- but then all of us do suffer some kind of limitations: we can't for instance whizz off to Outer Mongolia in our private jets should the fancy take us.

It's about what limitations you consider normal- and who gets to decide.

TheNextMrsBuble- I'm sorry but you are wrong and over generalising. If you read this thread, you will realise that it's very much NOT a case of not bothering to learn. Many people don't have the £2k needed to learn from scratch. Some people just plain can't despite many attempts (I'm one of them, failed 2 tests, £2k poorer, practically phobic of driving). I have yet to meet a non driver who says or even thinks"I can't be bothered to learn to drive, I'll just get everyone else to ferry me about instead". Such non drivers only exist in your head TNMB. As for your 79 year old mother, she is of a different generation where society didn't try and make not driving a character flaw.

"TheNextMrsBuble- I'm sorry but you are wrong and over generalising. If you read this thread, you will realise that it's very much NOT a case of not bothering to learn. Many people don't have the £2k needed to learn from scratch. Some people just plain can't despite many attempts (I'm one of them, failed 2 tests, £2k poorer, practically phobic of driving). I have yet to meet a non driver who says or even thinks"I can't be bothered to learn to drive, I'll just get everyone else to ferry me about instead". Such non drivers only exist in your head TNMB. As for your 79 year old mother, she is of a different generation where society didn't try and make not driving a character flaw"

This, definitely. I don't know anyone who doesn't drive, or who has only recently learned who thinks 'I can't be bothered' they all have valid reasons, whether medical, cost or lack of need. The last of my main group of friends recently learned but only because she moved to an area where she felt needed to be able to drive. Before that she didn't need to as she was studying her Bachelors and Masters degrees and didn't have the spare cash to pay for lessons until she started work.

Many of my friends learned late (i.e. not at 17) because one of our best friends died a few hours after passing his test when he crashed his car. It put us all off learning until we were older - none of us needed to drive in the 6th form and we all felt we would wait until we were in our late teens/early 20s when we'd be a bit older and have more of a need to drive.

*So, why don't I drive?

• medical conditions (dyspraxia, hypermobility and fibromyalgia) make driving difficult and painful and potentially very dangerous given that I almost killed 6 people in 9 lessons)

• I probably wouldn't be able to drive independently (I never once managed to release the handbrake myself, I'm not strong enough) whereas I am perfectly capable of independently getting a bus, tube, train, tram or taxi. Or walking.

• I have a fear of driving stemming from the horrible driving lessons I had not knowing I had the 3 conditions above and not understanding why my driving instructor was reducing me to tears every lesson

• I live in London - there is no need to drive in the area I live - I'm 15 mins from Zone 1

• I have £20k of University debts... I simply cannot afford to learn even if I wanted to. I would need a larger number of lessons than average due to the medical conditions.

• Now I've been diagnosed all the people who told me they'd take me out to learn outside of paid lessons including my Mother and various close friends and DP have told me they won't do that anymore as they don't think people like me should drive

• Even if I could learn to drive I couldn't afford to run a car anyway*

I posted this earlier. I forgot to add this;

• my Dyspraxia makes my hypersensitive to smell. I can't be around petrol without vomiting. So even if I could drive and I could afford a car I wouldn't be able to fill up the tank to actually drive the car anywhere!

I have poor eyesight so am excused on that count. But dh did not learn to drive until he was well over 40, because he thought it was wrong to drive if you didn't need it (environmental issues, congestion).

We did not rely on lifts; we just organised our lives so we wouldn't have to. Which meant buying a house not in the nicest part of the county but near to public transport.
Letting the children know that their activities would have to be governed by accessibility.
Using the nearest shops even if they didn't have the absolutely widest range of everything.
Using an old ladies' shopping trolley.
Using taxis if we had to (you save a lot of money not having a car).
Planning ahead.
Walking.

TheNextMrsBuble - a whole different thread but at 79 your mother very possibly should not be driving anyway. OK she may be perfectly fit but what if she were not? Both my father and FIL at 70 should not be driving. You see the problem is that a lot of people have become dependent on a car because they live in a place that requires it or because they just refuse to use public transport so dont know how it works. Then they get old and their health fails and they are trapped. In fact the statistics showing how many old people are still driving is really shocking.

In my case and in DW's case we will never drive so we are already making proper plans about where we should live when we maybe are not quite so fit. For us, old age may bing many things but not isolation because we suddenly get ill and ca no longer drive.

For example, I was talking to a 65 yr old taxi driver a few weeks back. I told him I couldn't drive and he said the classic 'oh I couldn't do without a car'. Not in the sense he needed it for his job but just because he had always driven. It was part of his identity. He then shockingly told me he had had a serious heart operation 5 years earlier and had to stop driving for a whole 2 month period and he said it was 'hell'. He actually lived in a town right on a fantastic bus route and very close to an urban railway and easily callable taxis but described being not able to drive as a 'hell'.

While the OP has castigated women who don't drive - but what about the old women who have not only lost their husband but also suddenly too ill to drive and living miles away from amenities? Now that is isolation and dependency writ large.

Dont even get me started on the battles we have had getting my father and FIL to stop driving - they are just a risk on the road. My mother and MIL are both non drivers so depend on their husbands for transport - but only because they live in a place that demands it. They have never made plans for life without a car. Makes my blood boil.

Both my Great Uncles died in car crashes when elderly as they had heart attacks at the wheel and drove straight across duel carriage ways into oncoming traffic. The taxi driver who drove me yesterday age about 60 confessed he had difficulty seeing properly at night and drove really slowly looking at the nearside kerb when cars came towards him with headlights on as a result.

Yes old age happens but car dependency in old age is not a good thing and having a car can be a far far bigger trap than not having one.

Good point, MoreBeta. My FIL was seriously putting other people at risk because he couldn't accept life without a car. Combination of failing eyesight and slower reactions. And he never seemed to realise when he'd had a near miss.

Dd's 79yo disabled transport driver was just taken off the job after he came to pick her up and went into the school gates 4 times and then straight into the headteacher's car. Dd said the scariest thing was how he refused to accept he'd actually done any damage.

My own dad is suffering from failing eye sight at 79. But thankfully it's not affecting his independence as he has never owned a car. He has just planned his life around that. Lucky him!

"It is nothing like Saudi Arabia. What a silly thing to say. It is up to an individual woman whether she wants to learn to drive in the UK. In Saudi, it is a state imposed decision.

Sme women might not want to drive, some might not be able to afford it."

Exactly what I was going to say!

My first post! I saw this thread yesterday morning and would like to say that I added to the percentage as I passed my test on my first attempt yesterday afternoon! :)

Those who are interested but being put off by the cost, I am 25 and did it in 29 hrs for around 500 pound inc. test. In my case I had started before but never got into it as issues with instructor (2 yrs ago now) but stopped as I was made redundant and so was my Partner, I started again (new instructor) and have done this in just under 8 weeks (av. 2/3 lessons a week).

I found the best way was that my Partner at the time (2 yrs ago) was doing his theory and as testing him I was learning too so I did my test soon after before any lessons, my first instructor did not like that (hence I changed when money allowed me to start again) but I found it useful as I could focus completely on it (got 100% on the questions part and a good pass score on the hazard perception again 1st attempt) and then completely on lessons and such the practical test. Hope my experience helps, as I am unemployed and wanted to drive but wanted even more to have the skill quickly to allow me to apply for better jobs because like others here I have missed out on great jobs because I couldn't drive (either in job spec or non accessible by public transport).

Anyhow YABU as everyone has the choice here and should not be forced either way whether they are Male or Female.

bit off-topic but since we're talking about women driving I wonder if anyone has linked to this yet?

CandyS, I cant believe women in 2011 still say things like my husband will always be a better driver!!!

I drive for a few reasons: I work 25 miles away from home and it would be hard to get to without a car; I do not feel safe on public transport or walking at night (if I did walk I would get the blame if I was attacked more than likely I would hear 'what were you doing walking around at that time!'); I dont want to have to ask my husband to pick me up everytime I go anywhere; I am independent and like to go where I please.

I'm sorry that so many city living women non-drivers disagree with my post. Having been brought up in the countryside and lived there my whole life it is vital to drive. I have seen how my mother has been limited because of her decision not to learn. OK she is now too old, but I have known her my whole life and it has affected her life not being able to. Anyone who lives in the city and has ample public transport to get to the shops and their place of work and social amenities cannot realise how difficult it would be to live in the countryside and not drive. Sorry, but it is a vital skill and leads to independence as MrsClown says. Controversial, but I stand by my post.

MrsClown- non drivers do not have to "walk alone at night" at then get blamed for being attacked. Non drivers get cabs or roam in groups!

gothicomper- your first post-welcome! Sounds like you had a good deal there. After 29 lessons I was nowhere near ready and the govt recommends 45 hours iof tuition plus extra practice etc.

I think some people need less than that and some people need more. Personally after around 200 attempts at reverse bay parking (and over 120 hours of tuition) I decided perhaps driving wasn't for me.

TNMB - I lived in the countryside perfectly adequately as a non driver before I moved to London.

Obviously it's easier to not drive in a city but for people like me who CAN'T learn to drive it's perfectly possible to manage. I will choose to always live a practical, commutable distance to work.

Instead of spending 30 mins driving to work like my best friend does I spend 25 minutes on the tube. It's no harder, it means I don't have to concentrate, I can apply my make-up, read, listen to my ipod, play games etc on the journey instead of driving.

I am certainly not dependent on others because I have disabilities which make it difficult for me to learn to drive. And I'm fed up of being told my life is ruined because I am, through no fault of my own, unable to drive.

TNMB- I dodn't live in a city either. Lots of non drivers make some sort of effort not to live in the middle of nowhere.

You are completely entitled to your opnion but many non drivers are getting sick of getting stick about their decision. We managed years ago without driving and I think too many people have been indoctrinated into thinking we must ALL drive. We don't. It's not an essential life skill. Certainly very useful if you live rurally but most non drivers I know would not choose an isolated home if they help it as they prefer to be independent.

Yay Nesta! As for TheNextMrsBuble, your opinions are clearly about as valid as your taste in music going by your username.

Thank you knottyhair and all others posters who have egged me on. I'm a bit shy in RL really so its very nice.

TheNextMrsBuble - my mother is in exactly the same position as your mother although only age 68. My father is beginning to find driving a strugle and yet they chose to retire - 6 years ago to the middle of nowhere!!!

I begged them to choose a really nice house they were looking at on the outskirts of lovely market town with its own rail station direct to a mainline station. Oh no that was not good enough - it had to be proper countryside and with 5 acres of land and outbuildings as well. I really worry what will happen if my father dies. I know my mother is worried too as she has started getting her groceries online since father had to spend a day in hospital and she was alone and totally cut off for the very first time in her life.

I perfectly agree with you about living in the countryside and driving but as NestaFiesta rightly points out making an effort to not live in the middle of nowhere or learning to drive is just plain common sensible.

In the case of our respective mothers - well I think I agree with you and the OP. I just can't understand why my mother has made herself so vulnerable.

Nesta, I agree it's not an essential life skill. It's only in recent years that people have owned cars. Lots of people when I was a child didn't have cars, so whether or not they were able to drive was irrelevant. My grandad drove a lorry for a time as a job but never had his own car, likewise several other family members.

The point about living in an isolated area is a good one. I know an older couple who live at least 15 mins by car from the nearest shop (and that's just a tiny convenience store, not a supermarket or anything). No public transport, no local amenities, no home shopping deliveries. Totally dependant on cars. One of them now does not drive due to ill health. if the other has to give up they will be virtually housebound, and totally dependant on their children/neighbours.

CandyS, I cant believe women in 2011 still say things like my husband will always be a better driver!!!

I can't see why not. My DH likes driving, he is interested in cars, like motor racing etc. I drive through necessity, don't enjoy it, only want a car that gets me from A to B and am not impressed by any car and would rather watch paint dry than watch a Grand Prix. Naturally he is a better driver and always will be.
I am a much better skier. So what? Driving is merely a skill, not essential.