BOYS CHASING OUR feathered friends in town and city centres. Drame. What would you have done.

[ScousyFogarty]

Some years ago, a true story

Boys of a youngish age chasing pidgeons; as they do....the birds usually fly off and leave the child disappoinred.

On this day.....a boy of 6-8 chased a bird which was busy feeding. He jumped on it....KILLED IT......there were a lot of people around some got very angry.....one talked of reporting the boys dad to the police.

What would you have done if you had been nearby....(anyone can give the daft answers, lets start with a few serious ones.)

It doesn't need to be added, sausages - I already said the same thing about psychopathic behaviour earlier on in the thread. Sadly, it would seem that some people would condone animal cruelty because they don't like the actual species. There is suffering involved - this is not a clinical culling, which is another matter entirely.

All birds should die? What a very very sad statement. No birdsong, no robin, no beautiful blackbird's song. Nope, I don't want to live in a world like that. Also in a world where children (who will one day of course be adults in charge) needlessly hurt animals. What a sad, brutal world that might be - killing animals that don't suit us.

A lion cub chasing a butterfly is learning behaviour. They will one day hunt. But a human child stamping on a pigeon. No - sorry - no the same at all. Why not give them spears and leave them to hunt cats, dogs and birds in the town centre.

punkaheart....I accept your analysis from a scientific angle. But young boys seem to be natural runnersm jumpers and chasers. You may think that is where parents and teachers come in

Well, I think teachers are split on what is called "play fighting" between boys. Some say it leads to seious stuff. Others say its natural .

We seem to be largely against young boys chasing pigeons in shopping precincts. That is a hopeful sigm

I don't see what being a vegan or not has got to do with it Amberleaf. Whilst I accept that some meat is reared and killed in less than ideal conditions, it's also true that some meat producers ensure their animals have happy lives right up until the end.

It's not as if this boy killed the pigeon so he could take it home and put it in a pie, so meat consumption is irrelevant. He was simply being a nasty little sod and pointlessly cruel (even if you argue that some meat production is cruel, "at least" there's a point to it) and his father should have read the riot act to him.

i am sure it is illegal to kill birds.

I have to say I disagree, If the child showed a sign of remorse for killing the pigeon, which was explained before, it would have obviously been a bit of an accident...

It seems to be deeply ingrained into the nature of children to scare off pigeons and when my little baby is at the age when he will run at birds, I will do exactly as said that animals arent game but it is part of our nature and hunting birds is at the end of the day a good example of cause and effect for our children.

I have noticed that pidgeons in town centres don't fly away if people walk or run past them.Are they getting complacent or lazy?

When we lived in Glasgow DH and I noticed that many of the pidgeons in Central station were injured in some way,injured wings, feet.etc.They used the station as a source of easy food.

They are scavengers TBH and I detest them but wouldn't harm them.

Disclaimer: when DS was little (about 2) he used to chase them as children do and squeak "Oh mummy ,chickens "
We still call them chickens even now!

It may come as a surprise but girls chase pigeons too..... they are also capable of animal cruelty.

Neither of mine were allowed to chase pigeons, it's pointless and cruel, much as I detest the feathered rats

Little children chasing pidgeons is normal. It must happen every day in big cities. It isn't usually intended to be cruel... just childish. They start off wanting to cuddle / touch one, and then enjoy watching them fly. I've seen this many times - as we all have - and the pidgeons never seem very bothered. Often they just flap a few feet to the next crumb.

An incident like the one described in the OP must be very, very rare. To label the child a psycopath, considering the very limited information we have, is not justified. What if he was just a normal little boy who was being naughty, happened to pick on an old or weak pidgeon which didn't fly away, and got the shock of his life. I bet he'll be more careful the next time.

I don't like kids chasing animals. I used to visit a particular zoo quite a lot where there were free-ranging birds, who'd been pinioned so they couldn't fly off. People used to just watch their kids chasing these birds which was extremely annoying. Birds live there, can't fly away - not ok to chase them. Otherwise you have to put them all in cages which spoils the enjoyement for the rest of us of having some of the animals pottering around among you (was really cool when the flamingos sometimes went for a walk! Until they got chased and the keepers had to come and lead them back to their pond...). I think kids need to learn a blanket rule that you just don't chase otherwise they are not going to see the distinction between wild animals which could move away and captive ones which can't. Promoting respect for all animals does no harm.

I have never liked the idea of children chasing pigeons, and haven't ever let mine do it - but the fact that a young child actually killed a living creature is horrifying. I can see that the dad and the boy might have been so shocked at what happened that they couldn't react at once, and I think that the bystanders did the right thing by making it clear how unacceptable the boy's actions were. I hope that they had a proper talk about it later on, and that the boy was punished.

There's no excuse for killing a living creature for fun - even if it is a feathered rat, as ApocalypseCheeseToastie rightly says.

It doesn't need to be added, sausages - I already said the same thing about psychopathic behaviour earlier on in the thread.

Apologies punk...I hadn't seen your earlier comment.

seeker EMPATHY is a good thing to have,

Hogsback?well if he had never killed anything before he probably did not know what precisely would happen. Daddy would know.

GIRLS? the vast majority one sees chasing pigeons are boys. (Boys seem to be natural hunter gathers at a very early age.) And,on balance, I think most women are nicer than most men. Think violence, fighting, trouble making. Women seem to be more peacemakers than men.

I would exclude top big business women from that remark. They seem to ape men. (What else can they do?)

MosEisley... there are some grounds for your optimism. But perhaps more parents should have a quiet word with their boys on this

Aww poor murdered pigeon....

Andrea - I will do exactly as said that animals arent game but it is part of our nature and hunting birds is at the end of the day a good example of cause and effect for our children.

Sorry, could you clarify? I don't get this (been watching too much Mr Bloom and it's addled my brain!)
Part of our nature - ok, that bit I get. I don't necesssarily think that gives a green light to go ahead with undesirable behaviour - surely part of parenting is helping kids to learn to manage their desires and know when to give in and when not to (that sounds pompous - sorry. can't think how best to phrase it). So, for example, my dd might argue (if she could talk that well) that snatching food she likes off the plate of others is just nature, because she needs to eat the food for survival and anyway she likes it. Doesn't mean I let her do it! And if she manages, I tell her off and get her to apologise.

Cause and effect? If you stamp on something a lot smaller than you you stand a good chance of causing a lot of pain to it? Or even killing it? If a kid stands on a small bird and kills it, that's not hunting, that's either playing that has got way out of hand (in which case the parent needs to step in and explain why this is wrong), or deliberate cruelty which needs to be stopped.

I think incidences like this provide a real opportunity to explain to kids why we don't pick on things smaller than us, and to promote respect and empathy, which extends to other human beings.

I think some people have a problem reading.....

Mos - nobody has labelled this particular child a psychopath....what I said was that enjoying the suffering of animals was a trait of psychopaths

and I certainly haven't said that chasing birds indicates psychopathic behaviour...

I think often some little tots will run to pidgeons (not to chase them) but because they want to see them closer up...and will often be dissapointed when they fly away.

The highlight of my visits to our town center when I was a small child used to be to chase the pigeons, it was my treat if I was good. I am quite screwy but not a murdering psychopath. I much prefer the company of animals to people and I am a huge champion of animal rights and fight quite actively within that arena.

I let my children chase pigeons in the town hall square where I used to do the same, however when we go to feed the ducks they always make sure the pigeons get some too, so they won't go hungry.

Dd accidently stepped on a ladybird the other day and was inconsolable.

I don' t think there is any link between chasing pigeons or butterflies and 'torturing animals'.

OP if I had seen what you had seen I think I would have thought it was an accident, but then I didn't see it so I have no idea.

Wow Scousy those are scarily sexist and judgemental comments. 'Most women are nicer than most men'. Really?!

How did he kill this tree rat? Maybe we can teach it to other small children on CBeebies as a 'fun culling play activity'?

It wouldn't work JBellingham there are simply too many pigeons and not enough children, you would have to give them a quota to meet or something. Then people would be bitching about child labour.

Give 'em a glass of Sunny Delight and a fizzy sweet every time they hand over dead vermin. They will soon be cathing em in mid air.

slartybartfast - it's illegal to kill most wild birds without a licence. However, there is a list of birds that are under "general licence" which means they can be killed by a landowner or occupier at any time. I accept that the boy in this case was probably not authorised by the council so you're correct, it was probably technically an offence.

The list of general licences are here

Feral pigeons feature heavily on the lists.