To think the term 'bullying' has lost all meaning?

[Catmilk]

I just read some model complain that she was bullied at school, being called names like 'Kipper lips.' If that was basically it, is that bullying? (And have you ever noticed how models were always apparently teased for being too tall, or a bookworm, or kids would call them 'skinny-long-legs-big-eyes-shiney hair' or similar... Yeah right.)

Anyway, bullying is clearly a spectrum, from persistent name-calling to being beaten up.. but with the welcome anti-bullying campaigns around these days, it seems every celebrity has to admit to being bullied... and again it seems when pressed it's little more than name-calling. Are there many people here who didn't suffer - and maybe dish-out a little name-calling at school? Were we all both bullies and bullied?

I don't have the answers... but 'bullying' to me means the aim is to install fear in the victim, perhaps to the end that they would give up their dinner money. Frankly, that's what I think of when I imagine bullying - physical threats for sweet money... but I accept it can be more subtle that that, especially with girls. So how do you define it, and do you agree that the modern usage of the word is getting a bit vague?

I think that all that it needs to be bullying is for it to be sustained. Being called a name in one tiff would not be bullying but if you are called a name or names every day then it becomes bullying. If you can't walk down the school corridor without insults being called out repeatedly. If you spend every interval and lunchtime alone because nobody will speak to you for fear of being the next victim. I mean every day for years in end btw. Then that is bullying and it destroys you from the inside out and it has driven people to suicide. A girl hung herself here a few months ago and I have clear memories of wanting to die rather than face another day in the playground.

Catmilk I don't count the things you endured, as unpleasant as they were as a sustained campaign to belittle you.

I can say that because they happened to me too. However I was subject to a sustained campaign by up to 30 loosely-affiliated children at school sometimes with the tacit approval of teachers because I was a 'pain in the arse'.

In reality, of course, I wasn't a pain in the arse. I was trying to live my life. Now I've got older I realise that bullies always pick on people to mask their own lack of esteem. Ironically, the victim might be considered to have a strong personality which inspires envy, but is someone who is easily isolated like a new girl at school or someone posh called Jesamine - where the fuck did that example come from btw?

Anyway, it's not about being weak or strong or bringing it on yourself. It's always about the bully.

btw I grew up on a '70s council estate and don't recognise your descriptions of a menacing atmosphere.

It took until I was 11 and transferred to a school in a middle class area for the bullying to start for the simple reason that I was different.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass on whether I'd rather have been beaten up on a daily basis rather than endured daily psychological snubs.

I would say though that it's rubbish to believe that psychological bullying is harmless - it affects your relationships, your education, the way you deal with authority figures and may lead some people to suicide. It's also a lot more common than being duffed up for your pocket money - though that can happen too.

Unlike you I don't consider my bullies to have been evil psychopaths. They were children who were behaving badly and the adults around us should have stopped them and stopped them again until they learned.

Sadly, many people do not take bullying seriously, believe myths and indulge in victim-blaming when as adults, they should be sorting this out.

I've no idea why people do that because I can honestly say, to answer another one of your questions, that I've never bullied anyone.

If I had to guess I'd say that some people were trying to avoid thinking about things they did in the past.

my daughter invited just three friends on her birthday in first school instead of her usual party and one of the girls in her class who my daughter knew but wasnt besties with rang me up saying we were bullies for not inviting her and leaving her poor little 8 y0 out wtf?

I take bullying to mean sustained or persistent abuse directed at a person. I think persistent or sustained is key because I don't think a one off incident of falling out/name calling/hitting is actually bullying. Bullying is much more serious and damaging IMO and yes, I think the term has become overused these days.

I think I was a bully. I hate admitting it, but when I look back at my school days, I don't think there is any other way of describing my behaviour to two others in my class.

It wasn't group bullying (as if that's any excuse), just me not liking certain people.

Teenagers can be absolutely foul.

LTDPeriod, you are implying I might have been a bully? Nah, even with the the word becoming as vague and borderless as it now is, my recollection of my school days is being afraid of the physical bullies until I escaped to Grammar school, where in my class at least, everyone was quite 'bantery' and there was no systematic/severe bullying I was aware of - and I'll include being called 'Boiler' for years, due to my bad skin. I hated it. I hate the word now. But I don't think it was bullying. I also had a big mouth and liked to get a laugh at anyone's expense, but I'm not a genuinely mean or cruel person - and real world bullies make me very angry. Gordon Ramsey, for example, can f*ck right off.

And I've made it clear that I think psychological bullying is anything but 'harmless' so if you are suggesting I think that you are simply not reading my posts - and describing the children as 'evil psychopaths' was a joke, based on the fact that children really haven't got the hang of empathy yet.

Of course bullying at school needs to be dealt with very seriously. It wasn't when I was at school. But I also think school is unavoidably a place where children learn by trial and error how to develop the social skills they will need in the adult world.

the victim is the real judge of bullying

I don't know. I certainly have come across some examples of so-called bullying that most definitely is not, but at the same time, I think it's terrible that we quite often expect our children to put up with things that no adult would - simply because "kids can be horrible".

I think there's a point at which children probably shouldn't be called bullies, because the intent isn't really there and they are too immature to see the impact of their behaviour. I understand why others would say "Nah, that's not bullying and I resent the label". The behaviour itself is bullying though, and needs to be addressed and not written off as "normal" though, partly because of it's effect on others, and also partly to check out why the child is being so nasty and address that. I don't accept that any child should be allowed to get away with it, as sunshine says. I've seen children get away with teasing people at 6, and then persisting to the point where "everyone knows" what a nasty piece of work they are at 11

"But I also think school is unavoidably a place where children learn by trial and error how to develop the social skills they will need in the adult world".

Children shouldn't just be learning by trial and error about social skills, they should be being guided by the adults around them. We are preparing them for the 'adult' world and the world of work, so in their best interests they should be told when their behaviour is not nice.

Sadly though, Birds, maybe the adult world values niceness less than we do/they should

But in some cases we are allowing behaviour in schools that we would not allow in the workplace. I am focusng on the over twelves, who do know the damage that they are doing, likewise young children should be told that their behaviour is unacceptable and be stopped from doing it.

true

you post on here about bullying yet you think it is ok to call children with special needs freaks........................ you disgust me OP you really really do!!!

I define bullying as someone being nasty to others in order to upset them .... rather like your nasty little comment on the Born To Be Different thread OP.

How can you post about bullying after calling children with SN freaks ????

What lottie, Dilly and wanting have all just said.

Ironically SN children are amongst the most severely bullied. But hey, what do you care OP?

I agree with lottiejenkins, CATMILK have seen your post about SN children. You disgust me also!!

Erm I think bullying could be something like calling someone A CUNT.

Or a TWAT

Or a CUNTING TWAT

Or a PATHETIC CUNTING TWAT FACE.

Something like that OP?

Well done MrsDV!!!!!!!!!

What?

What did I do?

It's surely not only about instilling fear; bullying, especially name calling, can cause the victim to loathe themselves and to eventually believe that what the bully is calling them is real.

It makes them feel worthless.

So YABU to think it's lost all meaning but I understand that you mean peoples; tolerance of what's deemed as acceptable has changed somewhat.

OP would love to know your views on bullying within the special needs children sector and just what you think of them again, for the rest of them that haven't seen what a nasty person you are. Would be great, if anyone could put a link up to show OP for true colours , just in case OP forgets.
My friends daughter has severe special needs, as does my friends son,my daughter has slight special needs, so what are your views again? do what with them?

The OP catmilk is a hypocrite, have you seen her views on people with SN, MN deleted her comment after she was reported, agree with jobo84 nasty person, true colours.