To think the term 'bullying' has lost all meaning?

[Catmilk]

I just read some model complain that she was bullied at school, being called names like 'Kipper lips.' If that was basically it, is that bullying? (And have you ever noticed how models were always apparently teased for being too tall, or a bookworm, or kids would call them 'skinny-long-legs-big-eyes-shiney hair' or similar... Yeah right.)

Anyway, bullying is clearly a spectrum, from persistent name-calling to being beaten up.. but with the welcome anti-bullying campaigns around these days, it seems every celebrity has to admit to being bullied... and again it seems when pressed it's little more than name-calling. Are there many people here who didn't suffer - and maybe dish-out a little name-calling at school? Were we all both bullies and bullied?

I don't have the answers... but 'bullying' to me means the aim is to install fear in the victim, perhaps to the end that they would give up their dinner money. Frankly, that's what I think of when I imagine bullying - physical threats for sweet money... but I accept it can be more subtle that that, especially with girls. So how do you define it, and do you agree that the modern usage of the word is getting a bit vague?

OP, have you ever been bullied?

Do these count? My two older cousins and my younger brother would often 'gang up' on me, just making me feel unwelcome or trying to lose me... (maybe I was a pain in the arse) but I think I was being sadistically victimised... Not violent, but it made me cry sometimes.

At school there was a bigger kid from a rough family who hit me a few times, and demanded my sweets if I had any. I don't think they remembered me each time though, and it happened only about four times.

My teenage bad skin was the butt of many jokes - but I gave (verbally) arguably worse than I got. Possibly more banter than bullying?

I don't really consider any of that bullying. Just kids being the evil psychopaths they tend to be at times...

Now my brother had to go to a special school, because he became terrified of school. As I understand it, it was due to little different to what I suffered at the same school, though he just couldn't handle it. He's a big strong man now btw.

With our different reactions, I'm not sure either of us would call it bullying. Where we grew up, in a not-that-rough but still 70s working class environment, that meant violence or persistent menaces from one or more individuals... but by today's standards, we both probably were.

Just like when little Jesamine is when her classmates snigger as she mispronounces Versace...

I agree OP. The word 'bullied' is bandied around so often that it really is losing its meaning.

"Bullying is not, as you believe, a 'spectrum' from 'persistent name-calling' being the least severe to being beaten up being the worst.

Like pozzled I'd class bullying as a sustained campaign against one person designed to lower the victim's self-esteem and her or his standing within a group."

It's a spectrum surely. Some behaviours are worse than others. Your definition leaves out what is a very common form of bullying - a purely financial transaction, junior mugging or gangster behaviour...

Are you suggesting it gets worse than daily beatings? A sustained campaign to lower one's standing in a group is bad, but you probably won't end up dying from a stab wound.

The greatest weapon against bullying is Eleanor Roosevelt's quote:
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

Catmilk - I think the psychological effects of bullying can be as bad for someone who has been taunted or sidelined. Especially a child whose self-image is just developing.

The trouble is, as well, that physical bullying is easier to spot and get taken seriously, especially in primary school, where any form of fighting is often outlawed nowadays. Psychological bullying can go on years with no-one spotting it. Of course, the two often co-exist

lubberlich - I agree to an extent. Bully-proofing and raising self-esteem are very important. However, this can easily get twisted into blaming the victim for their "sensitivity", and taking the onus off of children to basically be nice to each other. The whole group needs to acknowledge that psychological bullying exists, is wrong, and empower the target (I don't like the word victim) to report it and know it will be taken seriously.

It's a nice quote lubberlich but it puts the emphasis on the victim.

If you are surrounded on a daily basis by a ring of people calling you fat, ugly and stupid and laughing at you, you'd have to have the hide of an elephant not to feel inferior.

X post BalloonSlayer. That's why childhood bullying is so terrible. It gets children before they've developed any sort of hide.

JamieAgain, that's why I said it was 'bad' and not 'trivial.' Sure, it can even lead to suicide so I'm not dismissing it. It's just that, as others have mentioned too, some parents or kids are elevating any mean behaviour into the same stratosphere as the worst physical or mental bullying campaign. One word to cover that huge range of experiences seems inadequate - leading to suspicion and confusion if and when the latest X-Factor winner says she was bullied at school. It's like if you don't say that, you must have been the bully...

I havnt read ll this , but I agree with the OP ... the word has lost its meaning.
To me its being threatened with being beaten up if you dont hand over you last sweet, money etc.
To me bullying isnt a run of silly benign remarks about someones appearance,
or just simply being rude to someone all the time.

BalloonSlayer -

I have been on the lousy end of a group myself for a prolonged period at college. Call it bullying if you will. I was 19 and it was vile. But I got through it.
I was 6ft tall at 14 years old. I have dealt with some seriously abusive shit over the years but I was brought up to have confidence in myself and not allow others to bring me down. And that is how I am raising my DS.

I am very wary of young people being encouraged to curl up into a ball at the first sign of unkindness. The world is a brutal and unkind place. We all have to navigate our way through things and find strategies to cope.
It is called growing up.

In a nutshell OP I agree with you. There are so many people crying wolf over bullying that the cries of the genuinely bullied may be lost in the babble.

lubberlich - i think it boils down to a pessimistic or optimistic world-view. Shit happened to you and it made you see that shit happens. I agree you have to cope with shit, but there's also no harm in preventing it. And you can't prevent it if you don't acknowledge it for what it is.

OTOH I hate the emotional manipulativeness X factor, so don't want to get too drawn on defending it. Also, I have a bit of a thing about how reality TV encourages the general public to ridicule disadvantaged (sometimes mentally-ill people), and elevates Simon Cowell - who is basically a bullying shite himself.

If I called 'kipper lips' by many children at school on a regular basis I would call it bullying.

I agree with you OP. Bullying has to involve intent. I had a colleague at work who complained of being bullied by a number of colleagues including me. He really wasn't being - he was a difficult person who viewed anyone disagreeing with him as bullying. And his complaints about bullying were about 1 incident most of the time. I was relieved when he was made redundant.

lesley - I don't doubt that happens, I just think bullying happens a whole lot more than is acknowledged

The world is only a brutal and unkind place because bad behaviour goes unchecked. I am older than alot of posters and can remenber a time before racist and sexist remarks were acted upon. The same was said then, that people should just learn to cope beacuse that was the way of the world.

People can get away with being rude and making remarks because we no longer accept violence (in the workplace or school) as being an answer, so the provision should be there to force people to also keep their remarks to themselves and see it for what it is, verbal abuse which when it happens more than once, after being asked not to, is bullying.

Lesley33-once you know that a remark or name upsets someone then it becomes bullying if you repeat it regulary.

Me too Birdsgottafly. When my DS was bullied I carried that view with me so much that it took me waaay too long to see the bullying for what it was, and act on it. When I acted, I was actually surprised how the school never doubted it, and sorted it so well. I'm glad society has changed since I was achild (was never bullied myself but shudder when I think about the poor children who were and who I never stood up for)

I was bullied, physically and verbally and at one point I was called simply my own name. "First name surname" called out in a sarky way, in the playground, on the way to school and most of all in the PE changing rooms, by a gang of girls, one at a time, endlessly, followed by sniggering. It was miserable and it was definitely bullying - I ended up skiving PE completely because of it.

OTOH I've been called far ruder nicknames in an affectionate way and not minded at all. One group of friends called me a rude sex-related name (can't say or someone might recognise me!) simply because they knew I was a feminist and they were winding me up. But they included me, did stuff with me, I was their mate, and we all had loads of silly/rude names for each other - it was friendly.

So you can't tell from someone saying "I was called kipper lips" whether it was bullying or not. It's hard to define and you have to take each case individually - but basically, it's bullying if it's nasty and sustained. IMO.

to me its anything thats physical or mental thats repeatedly done to someone on a regular basis calling someone smelly or fat and tripping them up taking the micky because they have difficulty doing things you do easily wether they do it becuse you have buck teeth a squint wear glasses have ginger hair are fat thin tall short have freckles it doesnt matter what the reason its when you know what your doings distressing the person/victim so much so as in the case of a child they start school refusing, schools deny theres a problem (there little darlings wouldnt do that) and they begin self harming or worse. it can even be because you DONt speak to someone and encourage others to shun them or make whats known as a burns book up about them and pass it round to be laughed at, and what about internet and mobile phone bullying

i was bullied at school over a period of 2 years

there was 1 incident of name calling and one physical attack in that whole time, both by the same person. but the bullying was by my whole class who never called me any names, never pushed or poked me, never demanded my dinner money or sweets, never terrified me, never made up lies about me, never stood around me in a circle taunting me. no, what they did was very simple. they completely ignored me. for 2 whole years i spent every schoolday in silence, i didn't get to laugh at their jokes or play their games or take my turn at being X's best friend. i got to watch it all from a distance whilst walking round the playground on my own, making up the conversations they might be having and what part i would have in it if i were there, knowing that the teachers felt sorry for me, and knowing that even if the teachers spoke to every pupil, they would never be my friends.

i was bullied.

Lady1nTheRadiator, to be bullied requires a bully, surely? If someone mistakes well-meant 'banter' (that problematic but useful word!) for abuse, or misunderstands an environment where friendly piss-taking is the norm, they may well be mistaken to call anyone a bully.

There is also a power element to being a bully (or not) which is why a stupid boss may not realise that what he/she thinks is playful bossiness could come across as bullying to the wrong person, who didn't realise they were 'allowed' to take the piss back.

My point being it's not as simple as if someone felt bullied, then someone is a bully.

i believe the ring leaders usually are people who are also of low self esteem and bullied themselves at some point or have issues at home possibly, as being bullied can make people react one of two ways, its the fight or flight theory.

"I think if someone feels bullied, that's enough."

I think that's what we're discussing - that people feel bullied when no such attack is taking place.

I actually think that the problem is particularly acute among teenagers and 20-somethings. This is the age group that has grown up with the "believe in yourself" mantra and if anything goes against them they just can't seem to take it. Examples of this are dh's niece who said she was being "bullied" because the in-crowd weren't inviting her to Jack Wills at the weekends. Cue bil and sil storming down to her school about it and also a friend's daughter who claimed she was "bullied" at work because her boss didn't want to socialise with her. The boss is now facing a tribunal as the parents engaged a lawyer. Knowing this girl, I feel sorry for the accused boss.