parents think it's all my fault...

[inanna12]

i am in the middle of a huge row with my parents. in brief - i was not a terrible teenager (no drink/drug/police etc incidents), but i wasn't particularly lovely to my parents either. my relationship with my dad became very difficult; i feel that i had very little of an actual relationship with him at all (no emotional input or interest in my (selfish, frivolous teenage) world). we are now at a point where i recognise that i need to let the abandonment i felt - and still feel, if i'm honest - and the subsequent resentment go if we are to have any kind of relationship. when i bring it up with my parents, their attitude is "we did our best" and "you'll understand how parents fuck up their kids when you're older". they refuse to admit any responsibility, and think that the only "problem" they have is with the fact that i have a problem with them.
aibu to want them to communicate properly with me about this, and to find the inference that it is all my fault that our relationship is poor, and therefore my responsibility to fix offensive?
constructive replies please. i am fresh from a 4 hour character assassination session with them yesterday and am raw. (also waiting to hear from my dh, who is about to speak to my dad, who is "worried about my mental health" (resorting to calling me mad), so very nervy).

null, i wasn't at home when my bro was having his trouble. there was other stuff though, so there might be something in the sibling rivalry idea. i get on fine with him though.
domedon, i agreed that i need to get over it and to see a counsellor to help. i suggested we do some together as it is OUR relationship, but they were offended - they see it as me having the problem, and if i could only sort it out, everything would be peachy.

inanna it must be odd to see that their relationship with him is better than yours, especially if their reason is your behaviour as a teen, but he was addicted to heroin.

I have seen it from the other side. And very very rarely do people get into hard drugs without a reason, and if its in their teens quite often its a disfunctional family.

Parents dont have to beat you black and blue to be abusive. I'd take your brothers troubles as a pretty big sign your parents really were the problem. Maybe they see his recovery as a sign that they "helped him" and therefore put right their wrongs, whereas with you, you went your own way and sorted yourself out. Sadly parents like this will never ever admit they did anything wrong.

booy, thanks for sharing. i would like to not talk about it with them but they are not shy of letting me know how unsatisfactory they find our relationship because i don't "let them in".
i'm thirty-fucking-six, btw! yes, old enough to really have got over it. old enough also to have 2 kids, a great marriage, social life; passions, interests. and old enough i think to not be treated like a wayward kid, deliberately hurting my poor parents, any longer. the fact that my dad is going to talk to dh later about my "mental health" underlines it all. i must be mad, or ill, mustn't i?!
fuckwits...

yes nullis you're right. i think they're partially responsible for what happened to my bro. would never say that though as it would destroy them (am still "cruel" though).
i have no problem with their relationship with him; i'm glad for them. they do think it's "great" between them though which is delusional imo. just because it hasn't been dealt with, and he doesn't bring it up, doesn't make it a better relationship.

oh inanna i really could be you!!

i had quite an upsetting row with my mum last weekend. she is very interfereing, to teh point where if i mention teh name of someone she doesn't like, she tells me to "keep away from them, dont go near them, the are devious, tehy want you to be their friend, tehy would love to turn you against your family". all this just from me mentioning that i saw them in teh street!! anyway, i told her i was quite capable of choosing who i spoke to and didn't need her approval. cue massive row where she accused me of shutting her out of my life so she didn't know how i was living (wtf???). i was so upset, she really let rip and made out liek i was living some really dangerous life (i dont, i am a SAHM who never goes out, rarely has a drink, dont smoke or do any drugs, my dcs are well cared for and happy). i started crying out of pure frustration because she would explain what exactly it was that was worrying her, and tehn she said "what are you crying for?". i ended up leaving herhouse really upset and then the next day she came to my house to tell me that despite what i may think, she doesn't interfere and thinks she is very fair and lets me get on with my own life!! well good for you mother, that is what you are supposed to do when your children are adults!!! but she does interfere, she will never accept this but even my sister agrees.

i'm sorry for you booy. i screamed at my parents to get out of my house yesterday at one point. they went to leave (didn't; had another hour of it), and my mother stood there shuddering and shaking and saying "you said you never wanted to see me again"!! which i hadn't! - and my dad hissed "see what you're doing to her. how can you be so cruel?"
my mother had a terrible relationship with her mum btw. old patterns being played out. i feel that there is enormoys resistance towards me doing something different; changing the patterns.

It took me until my mid 30's to realise that my relationship with my father wasn't normal. Before that I did take the blame and all the mental health issues in my teens and 20's (anxiety mainly) came as a result of him. Before that I tended to think of myself as weak and pathetic for being ill when I had such a normal, 'happy' childhood. But it wasn't - my father did not and does not treat me like a normal father should. I find it strange that like you, as we get older things get worse not better. You'd think teenage years were ancient history wouldn't you?

What does your DH have to say about it all? I don't think he should be talking to your father about your mental health. You don't have an issue with your health so unless he is only going to say that you are fine and then walk away, I don't think he should be getting embroiled in this. It won't help. All that will happen is that they will think he has 'problems' too.

inanna i agree with niecie. i dont think your DH should even be entertaining your father's ideas about your mental health.

also, do you think it's time you set a clear boundary with your parents. like, telling them they wont be welcome in your home if they are going to be negative and continue to bring up the past?

i have an issue with my parents' negativity. i was aware of them being negative as a child but it is only in the last year i have realised that they only 'do' negative. there is/was never any praise. my mum will write once a year in my birthday card that they love me but i have never heard her say it. i tested my theory a few months ago. my parents have thsi issue with my car being untidy . every time i go to tehir house tehy mention my car (it is untidy but it's my car, i can have it as messy as i want). i have always had a messy car and tehy always mention it as if they aren't used to it by now. so i cleaned it out and it was spotless. i kept it immaculate for a whole month and when i visited them i made sure they saw it by asking them to help me strap teh dcs into tehir seats. not once did tehy mention it to me. my mum definitely noticed as i saw her surprise teh first time she opened the door but nothing was said. it did make me chuckle but i also wonder what has happened to them to make it so hard for them to say a nice thing. what do tehy think will happen just by being nice? anyway, to egt to my point. i refuse to acknowledge when they are being negative now. tehy are both gossips and it is never positive. so i just tell them straight now that i dpnt want to hear them bitching. it is so draining to hear it and i come away from their house feeling worse than i did when i arrived. so i just refuse to hear it anymore. i leave the room or i dont respond when they are looking fro a reaction.

Inanna, you've hit the nail on the head with your last post. There will be massive resistance to you changing the dynamics of the relationship. I had counselling recently and it was like having a secret revealed to me. Of course my family don't want things to change because it means they have to acknowledge certain things about themselves, they'll lose some control and power over me BUT it had to happen. For me it was the realisation that I could change my thoughts/actions/beliefs and if my family don't want to/can't accept that then it's their problem. I wouldn't want to lose the relationship but the thought of carrying on as we were with me being the injured party over and over again was too much to bear.

It sounds like they are picking at the wounds of your relationship with them to avoid lifting the plaster on their relationship with your brother.

You may have to refuse to talk to them about the past. And do not let them berate you for past mistakes or misunderstandings.

If they continue to bring it up, use a phrase that you repeat until they stop. "Yes, but that is in the past and a I am glad we have put it behind us.".

Refuse to engage.

Booy and OliPocket - its called "changing the family script"

You have your part in their life drama, you are the actor and if you stop playing the part they want you to, you ruin their movie (life).

Everyone with toxic parents should try it, if you are the "messy lazy" one, suddenly be clean, if you are known for being late, be early, etc etc.

It drives them mad. You will also then see how desperate they are to keep you playing that role, as they try to make you that way again. They dont want to have to look at thier own role, you see.

NulliusInVerba - That's exactly it. It was so obvious in my DH's family too. He is 'the one who never argues or stands up for himself'. His DM (my MIL) rang me last year and had a huge rant about the prospective name of our unborn child. Normally my DH would have tried to ignore it but on this occasion he went a bit nuts and had proper words with her about her attitude and boundaries. She almost had a meltdown over it. I think she's still recovering from the shock! BTW, he feels hugely better for finding his voice. I'm extremely proud of him.

nullis you are spot on. there are certain behaviours i know my parents expect of me so i live 'down' to them rather than doing what would be better for me.

tricky one this: I have had similar feelings about my parents. I think you have to ask yourself what you really want to get out of talking to them about it. If its some kind of closure you might be better talking to a counsellor because its quite aggressive to be on the receiving end of someone unilaterally imposing a discussion like this on you. Wanting them to confront it is understandable but I don't know if you can demand it if they aren't ready to go there. Its a bit like in a relationship or a friendship where one party constantly harks on about something which happened very early on -- there comes a point where its controlling and kind of bullying to expect the other person to go over stuff again and again.
If you really feel you need to make them aware of certain things could you maybe put it in a letter and leave them to think about it?

my dh is only talking to my father about my supposed mental health issues because my dad phoned him up earlier to say he wanted to. dh is supportive, perceptive and good at being placatory. we think someone needs to play a more impartial role. i've resisted dh being involved till now as he's not actually impartial, but as my parents refuse to come to counselling with me, it seems to be the best we can do.
i understand what you're saying, nullis.
thanks so much to everyone so far. aibu often seems to descend into a bitchfest and it's lovely to find so many supportive understanding souls.

To be very honest, you all sound nuts. The OP is "screaming" at her parents, they are shuddering and wailing. OP, you seem to have an agenda about what your parents have to say before you will have a relationship with them. Also, holding them "partially responsible" for your brother's heroin addiction is utterly unreasonable. Did they supply it? What you say is a four-hour character assassination, they would probably say was their attempt to explain themselves and their perspective? We are only getting your side.
I think you have to stop putting conditions on what must happen in order for you to have a relationship. I know this from my own experience.
I have been the parent of a teenager who was not drinking etc but whose moods and behaviour seemed to govern the home. He could be incredibly rude and spiteful, often swearing at me, all the while getting good marks at school. It has taken a while to get past that and it seems we have now. But I still feel I put up with a huge amount of emotional abuse from him, which included posting on his blog how "useless and pathetic" I was! BUT, I know that he also has resentments and issues with me. For example, we went through a very tough financial period and I sold his car because he wouldn't contribute anything towards it (after umpteen warnings) and we could not afford it. I'm sure he thinks I was a cow to do that. I don't and I wouldn't apologize for it. My point is that both sides carry resentments and neither is going to totally back down. At some point you have to let it go.

er thanks nomedoit. just what we all needed to hear. we're all nuts.

No, you sound it. What else was the scene that the OP described. Is it normal behaviour to scream at people?

The relationship is at best strained. Does the OP want to fix it? Or is there some payoff in allowing it to continue? A very wise counsellor once told me that if you continue patterns you could change then you are getting a payoff from the dysfunction. I think the OP does get some payoff here, she's the innocent victim, they are the bad ones.

I think they all share responsibility and they all need to let go of the past resentments.

of course it isn't normal to behave like that but saying she sounds 'nuts' isn't exactly constructive is it?

you say OP is being the innocent victim but from reading her posts it seems clear to me that it is her parents that are playing that role and blaming her for being a horrible teen.

re my post above: until you posted, nome.
i'm not pretending or claiming that it's all their fault, or that i'm not playing a part. just that if we - and it is them who find it dissatisfactory too, as they point out - want things to move forwards then WE need to take responsibility for the state of the relationship, not just me.
i acknowlege that i need to let it go. i'm posting looking for help with this. saying "just get over it" isn't helping me. i genuinely don't know how.

You have to accept that they see it their way and you are very unlikely to reason or argue them out of it. As I said in my post, it is accepting that you and the other person/people view the past differently and continuing on that basis. I'm not suggesting you do anything that I haven't tried btw. Also, if you scream at them, that will (unfairly or not) undermine your bargaining power with them.
Being "supportive and understanding" isn't necessarily the same thing as agreeing with you!
How much do you really want to fix this? You do all seem to thrive on the drama and scenes?

and no, i don't think i'm the "innocent victim". i accept that there are things that i've said and done (and not done when i should have, sometimes) that have contributed towards distance between us. i'm not pretending it's an easy process, but i am willing to hear what i have done to cause upset, look at it, discuss it, take responsibility for naievety, idiocy, arrogance, etc etc. and then apologise. from my fucking heart because i recognise that this is causing terrible upset. - for them too.

I don't think anyone's saying you should just get over it. I can totally empathize with wanting to force someone to engage with you on an issue like this. The problem is, if one side of this equation (your parents) doesn't want to have the conversation there's very little you can do about it and shouting at them etc is likely to be counterproductive. You can't will them to start facing up to their side of it. They may feel that it was your fault and not theirs and if this is what they genuinely believe there's not much you can do about it. Also there are a lot of people (particularly people of a certain age) who don't think talking helps things and they may acknowledge they have a part to play but feel that raking over it will not be constructive.

If you really feel you need more help with it, which is totally understandable, it may be that your parents are not best placed to provide it, and you should go to a third party. You may in time be able to persuade them to revisit these things. But in the short term you may have to compartmentalize them and accept that certain discussions are going to be off limits.

nomedoit, if by you all you mean teh rest of the posters here. i can tell you that you are wrong. i hate drama, conflict, confrontation. i said in my post how much it upset me when my mother started on me last weekend. cut sometimes we have to be direct and tell people straight that we aren't taking anymore.

People don't become heroin addicts for no reason. They use the drugs to block something out and then get addicted. Chances are that if he became an addict as a teenager his parents are at least a part of something he wanted to escape from.

As for the OP screaming, unless you have been on the receiving end of a 4 hour character assassination when nothing, absolutely nothing, you say is listened to and you can't say a thing right, you cannot understand the frustration of being stuck in that situation. The OP asked her parents to leave to make it stop - they didn't. No wonder she screamed at them. She is only human after all. Her parents won't let her drop the subject but nor will they help her resolve it. The frustration must be hard to bear. So yes, it is normal behaviour to scream at people in that situation. What would you rather she did - manhandle them out of the door?

I don't think the OP is avoiding responsiblity but it isn't much help taking responsibility if her parents won't take their share.

It is a shame her parents aren't like others of a certain age - they might not have bothered to visit the OP yesterday to 'sort things out'. That doesn't sound like people who don't want to talk. They sound like people who want to talk very much but only if the OP accepts that she is the bad one and they are somehow the victim.