to not understand why anyone would ban Disney?

[ScrotalPantomime]

Thread about a thread about a thread - the debate was getting lost among the main debate so I thought it could continue here... I guess each to their own, if you want to ban it then it's your choice - I admire such tenacity, as I've failed miserably at a Nestle boycott - I'm just a bit as to why.

I understand that Disney is very different from the original stories but I don't see the harm - when they're really little would you want to let them know the darker versions? It is a good 'safe' way of introducing classic stories, and IME children will cope with gradually learning the proper endings.

I totally get that most some Disney things are sexist, but it's not all princesses is it. There's much more to Disney than that. Of course if you expose them exclusively to the princess stuff it will warp their views, and I do frequently introduce my face to my palm when I see all the merchandise, but I don't think it's inevitable if there is balance. You don't have to buy into all the crap.

DD's favourite is Hercules, which I bought for DH as he loved it. She now demands that DH tells her all about the Greek Gods at bedtime. This has led to an interest in the past, so as part of her 4th birthday present we are getting her some books - one of Greek mythology stories, and one about life in Ancient Greece. I'm hoping this will be a good opportunity to then introduce other ancient cultures - Rome, Egypt etc, but right now Greece is the word (geddit?) :o

Other favourite is Fantasia, which I preordered the second I found it on Amazon as I absolutely adored it as a child. Really thought DD as a modern child would be at it but she adores it and sharing it with her has been incredibly special. It built on her love of the Nutcracker (she learnt the music from the Barbie version! ) and thanks to Fantasia 2000 we've also gone onto reading bible stories and the darker version of the tin soldier story. She's been exposed to classical music from babyhood anyway, but Fantasia has really cemented her love for it.

I'm waffling now, but I just wanted to say that I really feel Disney has added a lot to my DD's life - more than other stuff she sometimes watches which just seem so bland. Although - bad mother alert - she does sometimes watch Futurama and is now fascinated by space and time travel...

As I said, each to their own and if you've got a strong enough conviction then fair enough, but I'd like to hear more about why. Enlighten me - I feel there's an interesting debate to be had here :)

There's also the racism thing, which may be a lot less obvious to you if your child is white. Although there are now (very recently) one or two token non-white main characters, the utter overwhelming majority of them are white.

Once it occurs to you, it is also pretty obvious that the only characters with foreign (non-American) accents are the baddies. Check out "Aladdin" in particular. Logically, they should all sound the same as they all come from the same place but no.

I haven't thought about banning Disney tbh, as DD is still too young for it and so has not seen any of it. I am impressed by all the things the OP has managed to develop from Disney, such as the Greek myths, though. Good work there!

I think that some of you have way too much thinking time.

I'm sure if you looked into an awful lot of things there would be ethical reasons for banning most of them.

And :o at Goblinchild - I've actually learnt more about Greek mythology since this whole Hercules thing, as DH has told me how different the originals are. Quite shocking, some of them!

DD is surprisingly OK with the proper ending of the tin soldier, so I'll just take each story as I find it I guess.

lisianthus

You're right of course about the vast majority of characters being white. But on the other hand, the stories (up until recently) have been taken from old European fairy tales and set in rural pre-20th century Europe - where pretty much everyone would have been white.

I do wish they'd discover some of the wonderful fairy stories and folklore from other bits of the world, mind you.

exposure to disney is the start of the slippery slope of exposure to the evil world of mass marketing and mind control.

Disney is watched in our house.

dd2 is utterly entrhalled by all things Disney Princess. dd1 was, surpirisingly, fascinated with the Princesses at Disneyworld too.

I would far rather that dd2 (and I talk about dd2 in particular, as dd1 has ASD, severe delays, and so is not part of a peer group in the same way) watched Mary Poppins and Tangled than High School Musical (she is only 4), Hannah Montana, X factor etc.

they all contain examples of sexism, the same white-is-the-only-colour (less s with X factor, maybe) attitutde, and questionable morals at times.

but Tangled and Mary Poppins et al are at least more suitable for her age. and she needs to be able to talk about some aspect of popular culture with her friends at pre-school.

there are other things she does, but I get the impression that many of her friends do not - gardening, we play lots of board games etc.

the last party she was invited to was a hannah montana party - for a 4 year old. several of her friends are into HSM - all in good time, I say.

I don't know why everyone is so keen to skip it all.

I do understand the less salubrious aspects of it all -but tbh, yes I will be teaching my children about WW@ - but not at 3, fgs! I am not sure it is either or

I seem to have grown up reasonably well balanced, having watched Disney films, and am well able to separate out the man form his work - I am sure I couldn't do it at 3, though, and if my mum had told me "no, you can't watch Snow White - the man who drew it was a bad man" I would not reall yhave properly understood why.

Luckily I've managed to equip my kids with minds of their own. They don't need me or Disney to tell them what to think. If you only let them experience things that you approve of how will they ever learn to make their own choices?

I suspect that living with a Mum who is strong and independent, and being exposed to her female friends/family who are strong, independent women will have faaaaaaarrrrrr more impact on their reality.

I hope that is true. I also hope I'm a good role model

What's the worst that could happen by a child watching some Disney though? What do you think will happen? (genuine question)

I am a big disney fan too, my boys aren't that bothered but make the exception for cars and toystory, I know its not pc but I was brought up with it and its a bit of escapism.

each to their own.

am intrigued ladyofthecuntrymanor how will you keep the no tv when dc starts school (genuine question n ot a bitch, I admire the dedication our babysitter tv is on far too offen )

i'm with ladyofthecuntrymanor on this one. there are also disney films that have been withdrawn due to their racist connotations, songs of the south being an example. it was disney's take on the brer fox/rabbit stories. afaik it depicts jolly slaves.

i ban disney, by banning i just ask people not to buy disney products for dd's birthday/xmas. no one has yet taken offence to this. dd was given a packet of minnie mouse vests back along, i can live with that though. tbh i could live with quite a bit of disney in terms of material but rather than offend relatives its easier to just say 'no disney please'.

as i've mentioned on countless other threads i realise that at a certain age with dd the ban will be more difficult to enforce. then i will get picky as its the disney plastic princess culture i really dont want.

like with everything, i really dont see whats wrong with analysing first what you plan to expose your children too.

as a child i always knew the actual endings of fairy stories. its only since vicotiran times that society has felt the need to risk assess stories!

queenle - intellectual snobbery? absolutely! inverted? can it be inverted when disney is already the dumbed down version?

It's a cartoon. Lighten up a bit.

We actually don't have normal telly anymore - we disconnected it. Not for moral reasons, but because we are poor ATM and we barely watched any live broadcast anyway - tend to catch up on iplayer in the evenings.

So DD does not really see any adverts anymore apart from those for other films on all her many DVDs. But I'm sure she will still be exposed to it, especially once she starts proper school.

I have to admit we don't really have a lot of the princessy films, because as a child I preferred the animal ones (Lady and the Tramp etc) and DH liked the adventure ones like Treasure Planet. So we haven't overtly banned them, just haven't bothered buying the princess films. Perhaps that is skewing my view of the sexism in Disney films?

Anyway, so far DD is still a well-rounded individual with lots of interests (mostly, but not exclusively, 'male' hobbies - trains etc) and doesn't spend all day dressing up in tiaras - just sometimes. I'm getting the DCs a dressing up box at Xmas and it'll be very mixed.

ATM she tells me she wants to be a hero like Hercules - to be brave and strong and to help people. She's never said she can't do it because she's a girl :)

I blame Disney for my life! As I child I was raised on Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Mary Poppins, Doctor Dolittle (Rex Harrison version obviously) Oliver, Bedknobs and Bromsticks and all those other terrible classics that contain comedy, tragedy, singing and dancing, wild fantasy and general lies.
As a result I have become a fanciful, happy person, who continues at 30 years of age to have a wild imagination (handy when finding reasons not to go to work or do the hoovering) who has ended up with a husband very similar to Dick Van Dykes Chitty character (including the father in law, scary really they are both the spitting dabs in all ways!) which I suppose could be seen as a good and a bad thing, but the main thing is I have a well rounded grasp on life, a decent set of morals, a prevelant sense of right and wrong and have a happy home and family.
For gods sake, lets face it, we have grown up in a society where racism was prevalent whether we like it or not and to be honest there are places that still exist where it is still rife. So what if Walt Disney met Hitler, shall we start on our Royal Family, should we ban them for holding similar acquaintances? Do we really need to start banning anything that isnt 100% PC??? There is a cartoon on CBBC called Rastamouse you know!?! Surely that should be banned too? I second the comment that the Disney animations were based on European tales and yes they were predominately white, as were the people the stories were based on, that and the fact that in the time they were made society had not yet become integrated racially but there are no 'nasty' messages, only those that exist in the minds of people who used to play records backwards incase the devil spoke to them.....
Personally I shall be showing my son all the Disney films, exposing him to the likes of McDondalds, Museums, History, people of different races and walks of life. As soon as something is banned, it becomes a taboo and therefore wanted and craved. By allowing our children access to all of these things and allowing them access to information we can allow them to make well rounded informed decisions for the rest of their lives...surely this is better than the narrowmindedness that breeds such things as racism, nazis, snobs and so on?

I'm miixed about the films. Some are extremely sexist, but that harks more to the original fairy tales, than the films themself.

And no, I don't mean misogynistic, because their portrayal of men is pretty shitty, too. And racist. And a whole load of other problems.

I mean, Cinderella - Is the Prince THAT stupid, the only way he can find his "true love" is by finding the woman who leaves behind a glass slipper? Are all ugly women evil? Because that's what the film suggests. Are all stepmothers evil (ask any Disney film...)

Sleeping Beauty - The female protagonist was that significant that she only got 17 minutes of screen time throughout the whole film. But then, she should have been in the kitchen, anyway, I guess.

Beauty and the Beast actually provides the message that, y'know... That abusive moron you're living with? It's ok, stay with him... He'll change. The beast wasn't such a bastard in the fairy tale...

Aladdin - of course, the male protagonist had to be the most caucasian looking of the entire film. Add to that, the original film included a line about arabs cutting off your face if you pissed them off. This was 1992...

I could go on all day.

Now, I do let DS watch the films, but I think it's important that YOU teach your kids the values you want them raised with. That's more effective than subliminal messages in these films.

I was raised on Disney, and I turned out OK... I think... (Please don't all tell me otherwise... I'm still fragile)

This amazes me too. If you ban everything that might be slightly upsetting/harmful/too commercial for your dc, there is going to come a day when they are exposed to these things. Can't help thinking it will be a real shock for them.

We have disney in moderation and a wide range of other things.

I get particularly annoyed about the people who write to headteachers complaining about tiny amounts of "commercialism" brought into the school curriculum, thereby spoiling the well thought out project for everyone else.

mum765 - tiny amounts of commercialism? i'm fascinated please elaborate?

The racial stereotypes and nazi thing have always made me a bit uncomfortable about disney...in the same way that I feel guilty about listening to wagner.

I wouldn't ban it.

I do have a problem with a company that exploits children, both in terms of the 14 year olds making the overpriced plastic tat it sells (this is the age Disney themselves admit to as it's legal in the countries concerned), and the guilt trip marketing - the whole, 'We're going to Disneyland!' ad campaign is a perfect example- whilst trying to to push the 'magical world of disney'. Most companies that size are exploitative, but they don't try to cover it with sparkles and hide it under a princess dress. It's a vast company that generates billions of dollars in profits. From a business perspective you have to admire it.

It's latest classic was trying to copyright the name 'Seal Team Six' (American special forces that killed Osama) including the rights to merchandising like mugs 3 days after the event.

I agree with LeQueen (again)

I also at manicbmc posts.

Our school recently wanted to show a popular film - a 10 minute clip in order to expand on a project they were doing. It was a U certified film - but several parents complained and it was stopped. I just find it sad really - especially as all the dcs had been told it was going to happen.

Do children actually take in anything other than Disney's cute characters, talking animals, cheerful music and captivating storyline?
It's news to me that Disney films are evil so I doubt a young child is going to notice the racist, sexist, Nazi-loving tendencies of a cartoon fairy tale.

No Disney in my house. It's not banned, but I have no interest in it and so far my four year old (boy) doesn't realise it exists. Sure that will change soon though.

I dislike the way little girls seem to get so enthralled by the whole Princess thing, but I think that is more due to their parents pusing the idea than the occasional watching of Disney films. Also dislike all the overpriced merchandise and the whole idea of Disneyland, those adverts make me feel quite ill.

Although I wouldn't ban Disney films or toys from my house, I would not be encouraging them and I will never take my children to Disneyland, no matter how much they bed