To be upset with my DH about this?

[TinaWilliams]

Ok - I will start off by saying that this will undoubtedly be a sensitive topic for many, and I will try and be as sensitive as poss when telling the tale....

I am 11 weeks pregnant with my first baby at 34, and we are going in for our dating scan next week. During the booking appointment, the midwife asked if we had thought about Down's Syndrome screening. I reported that I had read something about it, and that I wasn't sure. I was fairly sure that I didn't want to go as far as having an amnioscentisis as I didn't see the point in introducing a risk (however small) of miscarriage unless we are going to abort if the test is positive.

DH pipes up with "well - we would, wouldn't we?"

Went home and have both done some research and naturally thought about it a lot and the bottom line is, I want my baby regardless and will love it regardless. I don't want to go through an abortion if (and I know that it is a very small chance) that there is something wrong. Spoke to DH last night to tell him that I dont want to carry out the screening and he got all huffy about me "not respecting his wishes too" blah blah blah and that "it was obvious that I was going to do whatever the hell I liked so there was no point in him taking any further part in any discussion" followed by "Just dont expect me to hang around for the consequences"

Naturally, he apologised and didn't mean it, but I have been left with rather a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing.

So, AIBU to refuse the screening if that is what DH really wants? And the thing is, now that he has said those things - even if he really didn't mean them - I am wavering in my resolve! I know that it makes me weak, and I hate myself for it, but I am just not sure that I could do this by myself if it comes to it. I am now torn between what I think is the right thing to do, and the fear of losing my husband and the father of my child over it. HELP!!!

BTW, havng just read over all this, I am aware that I have made him sound like a complete A-hole. I have, of course, synopsised all the conversations that we have had into a concise post which does nothing for making him sound reasonable. I also think that rather than being an unfeeling pig, DH is just frightened about the unknown - he has no knowledge or experience of kids with special needs - and he has a tendency to shy away from things that he cant rationalise for himself.

Areyou going to worry now even if you DO or DON'T have the tests?

Oh, x-posted with you, OP.

I guess educating your DH is your best bet then. But he doesn't sound as though he's going to be that receptive to it. Does he understand the risks of an amnio?

I think that if you are really quick you might not be too late for a nuchal fold test, which is non invasive and combined with blood test results would give you a clear indication as to whether your baby has DS.

Personally, I wouldn't want an amnio because I wouldn't want to take any risk of miscarriage. The thing is, nothing is certain in life and when you get pg you do take a leap of faith that all will go well. Amnio will tell you if your child has DS, but it doesn't guarantee you a child with no disabilities or a child that will never become ill. Your DH needs to accept that that is just the way it is. I think it's fair for him to ask you to have all the non invasive tests, but not fair to ask for invasive, risky tests unless you are both in complete agreement.

I'm afraid that if your child does have DS, then ultimately you will have to decide what to do, because you are the one who is pg. I think it's worth being prepared, so non invasive tests are good in that they give you time to get your head around things.

I think though that the two of you are worrying about what is a very small possibility.

Hi TinaW, I'd second a couple of things that have already been said the most important being the difference between expectant mums and dads. This is already your child,every day you are probably thinking about your baby constantly and you'd walk over hot coals for him/her. For first time dads to be (usually) you are a pregnant woman and the baby isn't here yet so his priorities are you and him. Whatever may happen you will think of in terms of the baby first, he will think of you and him first. Its not uncommon at all. My husband was the same.
I knew i'd be having my baby no matter what and so decline any invasive tests, I also was pretty certain that hubby and I would've coped with a disabled child and there are many disabilities that you cant test for/dont show up anyway.
I think if you don't want any tests,dont have them-especially invasive tests.
You know you OH much better than any of us do, do you really think he wouldn't be there for you and baby no matter what or is it just fear of the unknown?

For your own peace of mind during the remainder of your pregnancy, I would suggest you have a non-invasive nuchal translucency test before you are 13 weeks +6 days.

Yes, he does understand the amnio risks but we dont even agree on that, LOL! He thinks 1% is tiny, whereas I think it is a HUGE risk factor on top of all the other things that can possibly go wrong without shoving a whacking great needle into the uterus (I know, I am a little bit of a doom merchant).

I am aware that we are worrying about a teeny tiny risk level, and I do feel somewhat foolish about it, but i think that it has almost ceased being about screening and abnormalities, and moved on to to the fact that I dont want to feel bullied and he doesn't want to feel that he has no voice.

Let's get the Nuchal fold done then I guess, and see where we are from there! I feel bad that ultimately I have the power to decide yes or no, but I have no more choice in that then he does.

thanks all

T x

Yes. And if the nuchal fold one gives a risk of less than the 1% risk of the amnio then just maybe with the 2 sets of odds he'll feel a bit differently anyway.

Don't feel bad. In cases where a couple truly can't agree, someone is going to get the final say. It's right that it should be you, the one who is actually pg and would have to undergo the termination.

I think you have to do what you can live with in good conscience.

Are you sure this is about disabilities and not about discussing choices?

You are the one who is pregnant.

You are the one who will have to "Stick around and face the consequences"

YOu are the one who would have to lie there and have a need jabbed in your belly, then worry for 2 weeks about that 1% chance.

Why the hell does he think he has any say over your body? What in GOD'S NAME has given him that idea?

do you actually want a blooming great big needle poked through your tummy? he is being unreasonable to pressure you into this. it is not him that has to have it done. it is not him that has to deal with the physical pain of a miscarriage, or any tests following a miscarriage. it is not even him having to give blood.

No BoneyBackJefferson, I think that you are correct and we are now WAY off piste regarding the original issue.

This all started with the screening question, but I think that for DH it is all becoming about lack of control etc. At the end of the day, if he wanted us to terminate and I didn't, he would have no control over that.....and that frightens him.

I am sure that we will get there in the end :-)

the thing is, by giving in to him and having the test, you would just be giving him the impression that he does have the right to control what you do with your body, that he can make you do something you don't want to do - and what if he then wanted you to abort? can you imaginne, if this is the fuss he's kicking up about wanting you to have a test, how much fuss he would create if he didn't want the child as a result of the test?

If you know you want the baby, if you know you won't abort simply because your child has downs, then tell him to shut the fuck up and stop trying to control you. he has no right of control, and his level of fear or apprehension actually isn't relevaqnt. Even if he was hysterical to the point of hospitalisation with fear, he still does not have the right to tell you that you must lie on a bed and let someone stick needles in your abdomen and risk causing a miscarriage of a baby you very much want.

Tina, take it one tiny step at a time. Talk to your DH about each step as it happens. Help him talk about his concerns at each stage. Hopefully you will grow together as you talk this through and the statistics become more precise and personal. ATM you are looking at some very general information and trying to apply to your own situation - and your DH is struggling and scared.

We had the nuchal fold test - the results came back low enough for us to feel we didn't want to do anymore tests. So that was the end of that discussion - luckily.

Your husband is "frightened" that he wouldn't be able to force you to terminate if that's what he wanted? Has he always assumed that his wishes take priority over yours?

a quick PS, as others have said you still have time to have the nuchal fold test, which is v straightforward and carried no risk. This will give you an indication of the chance of the baby having Downs, so with luck and a following wind your risk will be low and having the amnio will not be necessary. Are you worried your DH still insists on you having the amnio test even then?

carries, beg pardon

My advice would be not to have the screening test at all if you would not be prepared to terminate in the case of Downs or Spina Bifida or anything else that is not a condition which is incompatible with life. When I was pregnant I had the screening blood test and it came back as an increased risk even though I am only in my 20s. After a lot of agonising me and DH came to the decision that we would have the baby no matter if it had Downs or not, and like you I really wasn't comfortable with the idea of an amnio as it was a very much wanted pregnancy which had taken a while to acheive. When DD was born she was perfect, no Downs or any other birth condition so we had all that worry for nothing. I will not be having the screening done on my next pregnancy, my feeling is that if anything major was wrong with the fetus it would be picked up at the 20 week scan and then at least we would have time to prepare ourselves for living with a physically disabled child.

I am of totally the same opinion as you, and have been in the position of having to have this discussion (although it wasn't Down's syndrome in my case)

I think one of the problems may be that atm your Dh is thinking about a sort of hypothetical baby (that's not a good way of putting it, - obviously your baby is real ) but you have the baby inside you, you are already connected with your child. Until a baby is born, IMO it is impossible to imagine the love you feel because there is no other love like it, and once he experiences that love he will be astonished he could have ever thought as he does now.

my aunty is downs and has a happy life. i dont think my grandparents would wish they hadn't had her. my bf's son is downs they knew before he was born that there was a high risk that he would be and he has had a lot of problems since his birth, he has been in and out of hospital with heart problems and bowl problem both quite common with downs children, but he is quite simply one of the loveliest little boys i have ever met and adds so much joy to his parents lives. you take the good with the bad with all children and more so with children with special need i suppose but having been raised with someone who was downs i find it very hard to understand why someone would consider aborting a child on that basis. but that is easy for me to say from personal experience.

When pregnant with DS2, 20 week scan showed significant soft markers for Downs syndrome.

I decided to have an amnio as I needed a definite answer, I intended to continue with the pregnancy regardless but wanted to know.

DH was shocked that I wanted to have the baby regardless, this sounds so harsh but as other posters have said I think he was scared (I know I was) and also I agree that for dads the baby isn't always as real as for the woman who is carrying it, feeling it grow, kick etc.

You have to do what is right for you, certainly in my case as much as I love my husband I couldn't bring myself to contemplate doing anything other than what felt right in my heart.

Nobody has mentioned Edwards or Pateau Syndromes which are also screened at the same time (by nuchal, blood tests and amnio / cvs). These are much more significant than Downs. There are a lot of scare mongering posts on here. It is not 'a great big needle stuck into you' - for amnio. The risk of miscarriage is nearer 0.5-0.25%.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but reading some of the responses I'm a bit shocked by the whole "it's your body" / "control" point of view.
I tend to think that in a marriage, and especially when both partners participate equally in a decision as big as bringing a child into the world, that they would both respect and value the other's point of view, listen, and trust each other enough to resolve differences in a way where no one person needs to have control or the final say.
There are some instances when I feel that the "woman's body" rule applies, eg to abort or not to abort. However in the case of a simple nuchal test which carries no risk, I feel it's wrong to simply put your foot down and refuse because "it's my body".

And this is where I can see that Tina's hubby is frightened about lack of control because if she had just put her foot down as others have suggested she should do, then he is not an equal partner in that relationship and there's a much bigger problem in that marriage.
Not sure if I'm making any sense, but I can't imagine ever making a decision like this without knowing DH is 100% behind me (and me being 100% behind him). I absolutely trust he has my and baby's best interests to heart.
Tina I'm glad you have not taken that advice to heart but I suspect you're still not comfortable with the outcome. Given you are under some time pressure, could you agree to the nuchal test but ask the sonographer to put the results in an envelope or send direct to your midwife until you've had a chance to discuss further with your partner? Or something like that to buy you time.

YY Lerato.

May I also caution against taking or giving advice on whether and what tests to accept as every situation is so unique and all our personal beliefs and values will vary. There truly are no right or wrong decisions here.

FWIW, when we were faced with the decision whether or not to have invasive testing I found it initially frustrating how none of the HCP we dealt with would 'advise' on what to do. By the time we were doing it for the 4th time I could appreciate that whatever the outcome of any test, whether there were complications or not, WE would have to live with the decision we had made.

The thread has gone off course a bit in that this is becoming a discussion about antenatal choices rather than about the differing emotions the OP and her DH are having wrt to testing and what to do with that information.