WWYD?

[HelpUsDecide]

Please bear with me as I am trying to write this without giving away revealing details.

I know a woman who is a single parent to an 8yr old girl.
The woman is an alcoholic. She already had her daughter in foster care just over a year ago while she went into rehab. Here we are with her back to drinking, and not just socially.

She has lost drastic amounts of weight.

Now this little girl means the world to me as does her mum, I was at the birth and held her before anyone else. The mum tells people "She is her baby but child". So I feel I am doing a great disservice to her.

But the little girl is phoning people to come and help her "Wake mummy up"

The other week the mum called me and asked me to go and help her as she had been drinking and was in a state.

I got there and made her coffee, bathed and dressed my girl, then made them both dinner.

I know if SS get wind of her drinking the little girl will be gone into care and she will be hard pushed to get her back - if at all.

So how or what should we do? There are a circle of 6 friends who are all worried what is going to happen. Please understand we don't want to call SS as she will lose her child, and I know this is not what is best for either of them. She is a fantastic mum, but she has problems.

I would take the little girl while she got herself sorted out but don't know if she would let that happen.

Thankyou all for your advice etc Now I am off to my usual name

Good news Help, hope all turns out well, don't be ashamed for having a go - why shouldn't you?
You need to release the stress too.

tbh Help your post has made me cross. This girl is being passed from pillar to post while you prop up your addict friend - plus the girl has had to live with her mother descending into alcoholism. the mother will go into rehab - daughter pillar, post - come back and very probably fall off the wagon again. You'll prop her up etc. Please do some research and find out some more about alcoholism and the appalling toll it takes on the people around the alcoholic. This child should not be subjected to this, has been subjected to enough already. I am appalled that you were 'ashamed' that you told her what you thought. Look up enabling and see if you recognise anything there. I'm sorry to be so blunt but I feel incredibly cross that you are not getting exactly how serious this situation is - you should leave it to the professionals who know what they are doing and recognise that a child subjected to this is not acceptable.

She is being sent to her dads where she is safe. Surely thats better than being in foster care. Her dad loves her and has a stable home life.

so why hasn't her stable loving father got custody of her permanantly, rather than her train-wreck of a mother?

I don't know other than the fact he works long hours, is about to have another child, lives further from her school than is sensible, but he is moving closer.

Her mum was fine until she lost her dad and it broke her. She didn't just turn into an alcoholic over night and she does want help.

All addicts have a terrible back story and although one has tremendous compassion for the story, the addictive process is astonishingly tenacious and takes superhuman (and some) effort to conquer. Repeatedly toddling off to rehab just doesn't cut it. It is also a characteristic of an addict that they don't take the problem seriously enough, minimise it, and repeatedly think that 'this treatent' is going to knock it on the head once and for all - like magic. it very rarely does. What it takes is full-on commitment which is evasive as addicts secretly want to return to their addiction and drown in it - it is their first love, before anything else. They protest that they really really want to conquer it but are mysteriously unwilling in the face of the gargantuan effort it takes to conquer it. Propping them up and moving heaven and earth to facilitate their addiction, or 'recovery', just keeps it going, pushes off the day of reckoning - which, for some addicts, never comes, regardless how squalid and heartbreaking their lives become. There is a child in all this (at least) and she should be protected. SS may not have a brilliant track record but they do know their stuff; which is that children should not be subjected to goings on like this and would be better off in a stable home, with at least a chance that they won't repeat the same when they are adult - that is, an addiction, whether the same or the many to choose from.

I have been in this little girls shoes and it was much better being with family than ss. My mum was great at puting and act on for ss as I am sure your friend is, especially with prior warning of visits. Maybe J's dad will keep her for good, he surely doesn't want his daughter in care.

I agree that being addict of any sort is hard to beat but not impossible the person has to want to stop. Having had a crap life isn't an excuse for being paraletic. I hope she manages it this time but if not something has to be put in place for J's future.

Agreed that it is better for the child to be with family but that the ss should know what has happened and what is happening so they can keep an eye on the girl and minimise the to-ing and fro-ing - specifically to not let the daughter to be subjected to her mother's active addiction again without a proven track record over a period of time. They don't know your friend has fallen off the wagon (again, despite her daughter already having been in care - please take note of that Help and don't minimise it: she drank again even though she knew it could mean losing her daughter, her daughter going into care again) and the ss must monitor the situation to protect the daughter from being subjected to it again.

plus - sorry, can't help myself - if you get heavy with her she'll only hide it from you too. That is, when she falls off the wagon again. Addicts are extremely secretive and can sneak an addiction past you with astonishing skill. Then the girl will be left with nobody to help her, nobody who knows what is going on. Even living with an addict parent, with no evidence at all of the addiction, is extremely damaging as there are a myriad ways an addict destroys those around them.

no, I havne't been in this position at either end before anybody asks. Just know more than I'd like to about addiction, one way or another.

springydaffs The love and bond between a child and its mother is very strong and I know of children who would much rather be with the alcoholic parent than anyone else whether it was good for them or not.also some children feel responsible for their parent and suffer real guilt if they leave them.It is not always cut and dried to take the child away.

It is cut and dried to protect a child from an out of control alcoholic parent.

That the alcoholic parent might try to make their own child feel responsible for the situation they find themselves in surprises me not a jot. Alcoholics will often blame anyone and everyone else for their own poor choices ("I wouldn't have needed to drink if you hadn't annoyed me") and will also often try to offload their own personal responsibilities onto other people ("You've got to tell me when I've had too much to drink").

But just because that sad and nasty bullshit happens, it does not mean that keeping the child there would be better for the child than protecting them from the chaos and drama that goes along with alcoholism. Yes, the child will need a lot of help and support to encourage them to realise that it is not their fault, that they are not responsible for their parent's drinking, and that they have nothing to feel guilty about. But those are incredibly important lessons to learn about someone else's alcoholism.

If children of alcoholics never learn those things, what kind of relationships do you think they will create when they become adults?

As I have said she is staying with her dad until mum is sorted herself out.

GAH!!! OP you're not getting it! You're as bad as her!!

As for "also some children feel responsible for their parent and suffer real guilt if they leave them." - that is PRECISELY why the child has to be removed! as it happens I know of two children who have been removed for precisely this reason, who felt responsible for their out-of-control parent. It is a disaster for a child to feel resonsible for a parent, a crushing burden that causes real, significant, deep-rooted harm. They kick and scream when they are removed precisely because they feel responsible, that the parent will die or come to great harm if the child (get that - CHILD) is not protecting them and looking out for them. That's about face wouldn't you say? arse over tit: THE WRONG WAY ROUND.

The situation you describe OP should be referred to SS who will use their considerable experience and expertise to make a judgement for the benefit of the child.

Gosh spring daffs that's harsh. She's not as bad as her, she's a concerned friend, it's not even really her problem. SS won't necessarily remove a child because they're parent is an addict; thousands of children live with addicts ith SS agreement.

springydaffs, it wasn't the OP who talked about children feeling responsible for the parent, it was lilyliz.

From where I'm sitting I think the OP has acted courageously in confronting her friend and it looks like there will be a positive outcome for her friend's daughter. In the short term she will be with her father and in the longer term either her mum will sort herself out or, if not, she will hopefully be able to stay with her dad.

OP, you've done a good thing. In time your friend will see this too. Do you have any contact for the father? Could you get in touch with him to make sure you still get to keep a relationship going with this girl?

that is very true serenity, I have been reading this thread but have been holding out posting further, but it is very unlikely that the child will be removed, if and when op reports ss will work to keep this child at home,they possibly will encourage kinship care between op and girls dad, attempt to provide support to the mum. OP you should contact ss but not anonymously do it with your friend.

I dont think springdafs is being harsh in the slightest she is being realistic, a situation like this does not just sort its self out with a break at dads and mum has time to sort herself out, to be honest it sounds like she is incapable of sorting herslef out, she needs professional help on ss or GP can facilitate this.

I knew it was lily's post.

Harsh? really? Maybe I have had experience of addicts and know the hellish road, with all the promises, the heartfelt sincerity... It was OP's ".. until mum is sorted herself out" that produced the GAH - but no, no, your friend isn't like George Best, your friend is probably a civilised alcoholic who is just having a rough time, bless her, and you're just helping them all out while she gets herself sorted...

What I see here OP is someone who thinks they know better - than the professionals, than people on here who have experienced it first hand, who know that the 'promises' are empty. Alcoholism is vicious, max on the richter scale, and yet you are acting like this is a blip, certainly quite a significant blip, but that all will be well once she sorts herself out in rehab. Maybe youll know more and will listen when you've fished her out of chaos for the 50th time.

well the professionals have left her with her mum!

OP I'm going through, or was going through the same thing, the dm is only just alive atm, the dcs are with their dad.

It's more complicated than some posters on here realise.

And you sound like a great friend. Good luck, I hope your friend gets and responds to the treatment she needs. Mine isn't, she's still drinking.

Also, the poor dd might not want to leave her mum

Monty, you see you understand J doesn't want to leave her mum. She loves her dearly as does her mum. The mum is getting help. SS are involved and have not removed J.

J went into foster care previously because my friend ASKED for help from SS. She was in care for 4 weeks before she was returned to her mum.

SS are still involved as are the school counsellors, J's dad, friends and other support networks.

Aside from J this woman has no family.

She has made a decision which is hard for her that J will stay with her dad who has not had any involvement until this year since J was a lot younger. But she would rather J was with her dad than in care because (in her words) "I have fucked up" - the woman knows her mistakes and is trying to get the help needed to overcome this.

So I may be as bad as her in some peoples eyes but all I am doing is supporting her in her hour of need.

Neither of you are bad op, it's a condition which is out of control for the DM. Do people really think she is choosing this path?
I have seen my whole family fall down like dominoes after various family members falling to this awful illness and die (always gets them in the end). None of them could have wanted this as their destiny?

Thank god you are there for your friend and you are doing your best.

So I may be as bad as her in some peoples eyes but all I am doing is supporting her in her hour of need

Yes and to love her and want to help her is commendable, truly. But alcoholism is vicious, deceitful, underhand and doggedly tenacious. She needs specialised help and in order to help her you need to find out more about the disease in order to target the help more effectively. This really is one of those instances where love doesn't conquer all iyswim. The 'help' can often be withdrawal - so you see it doens't follow the usual rules.

I'm sorry I used the word 'bad' - it was exasperation that I didn't feel you were listening; that you assumed, as so many before you have, that your love, care and support would bring about the desired result - also, possibly, that your friend isn't as bad as most? Alcoholism is no respecter of persons. It is rarely a smooth path to recovery and, as I have already said, initially takes eg a daily commitment to AA meetings (if possible) and a total change in lifestyle, a total commitment to recovery (and I mean total ie everything on hold - to the point that the recovery can look like a replacement addiction...) for some time - at least a year. And this is after rehab!

You say that ss are on the case - do they know she has fallen off the wagon again this time?

You also say that J is all the family your friend has. My dear, that is of no consequence when a young life is being sucked into this - this isn't about your friend but about her daughter. Ditto my posts.

Helpus, please feel free to pm me.

What I have done and what you are doing isn't actually helping, it's enabling the poor sufferer to continue to feed her illness. I do understand where you're coming from, believe me I do. I've offered my df's two dc's a home and would have done it and had them several nights in my home.. it doesn't actually help dm get better though, and eventually their dad stepped in. but this isn't about me, it's about you. Please don't do this to yourself, we're not equipped to provide what these people need. I love my friend, adore her, but she's gone now, it's not her any more, it's a stranger, a very ill shadow of her former self, she'd rather have a drink than anything else. Believe me. I didn't in fact, help at all. I never gave her a drink, I bleached her house, washed her dc's clothes, fed them at my house, I could go on..... and she never stopped drinking. Rehab didn't even do it for her.

Sorry for rant and threadjack, I've posted threads about her on here for the last couple of years. She's never got any better.

I don't write as eloquently as other posters, and I do hope I haven't upset you or anyone else. Ask Alanon or the great thread on MN I thinks it's called 'partners of Addicts' they were very helpful and welcoming.

I really wish you well, and your dear friend and family..