WWYD?

[HelpUsDecide]

Please bear with me as I am trying to write this without giving away revealing details.

I know a woman who is a single parent to an 8yr old girl.
The woman is an alcoholic. She already had her daughter in foster care just over a year ago while she went into rehab. Here we are with her back to drinking, and not just socially.

She has lost drastic amounts of weight.

Now this little girl means the world to me as does her mum, I was at the birth and held her before anyone else. The mum tells people "She is her baby but child". So I feel I am doing a great disservice to her.

But the little girl is phoning people to come and help her "Wake mummy up"

The other week the mum called me and asked me to go and help her as she had been drinking and was in a state.

I got there and made her coffee, bathed and dressed my girl, then made them both dinner.

I know if SS get wind of her drinking the little girl will be gone into care and she will be hard pushed to get her back - if at all.

So how or what should we do? There are a circle of 6 friends who are all worried what is going to happen. Please understand we don't want to call SS as she will lose her child, and I know this is not what is best for either of them. She is a fantastic mum, but she has problems.

I would take the little girl while she got herself sorted out but don't know if she would let that happen.

"she is a fantastic mum"

" but atm I really don't think she is capable of caring for her."

I'm going to be blunt here. No, she isn't a fantastic mum. She's not caring for her daughter in the way she should be. If her eight year old needs help waking her up due to alcohol abuse, there is a serious neglect issue.

Sorry, but fir the child's sake, you need to contact
Social Services, who will help this family. The child's interests must come first.

Mali, I will call her in a while. I am trying to work out what to say and how to say it.

Good point fairydoll

I also agree that her daughter is important to her but ultimately actions speak louder than words and drink is more important at the moment

good luck op

To be honest you have to be frank with her, try and get her sober. Lay out that she is in danger of losing her little girl, that her child is scared and that you all want to help her by taking the little girl so she can get sorted again.

Stealth, You are right. ATM drink is coming first. Her DD was always number 1 in her life. Until now.

I am going to talk to her and offer to take the little one for a while, while she gets herself sorted out. I will call SS if she refuses, and have already told her so.

Please note what fairydoll has said - you may need to notify SS if you are having her DD on a semi permanent basis

Good luck OP, do you think mum might be more open to her DD coming to stay with you if going into care was the only other option. Sooner or later school will pick up on this and SS will be involved whether she likes it or not. It would be much better for everyone if she could be in control of her own recovery rather than having the child made the subject of an 'at risk' case.

She is already on the at risk because of the previous situation. SS are still involved and this is what I can't understand, why they haven't picked up on it. Except they let her know when they are coming round.

Unless you're spending every minute with her then you cannot be sure that she's not drinking every day. At best, you know that she's probably not drinking herself unconscious every day.

It must be terrifying for that little girl. I've had phone calls off my two DCs saying "Daddy, we can't wake mummy up" and at least my DCs had each other for comfort until I could get there (my ex is an alcoholic). Nevertheless, those experiences have affected them deeply. An 8yo girl on her own with a mother who's so drunk she can't be woken? That's awful, really awful.

There may well be things that need to be said but right now she's going to be hungover and self-pitying. Whatever you say will likely go in one ear and straight out the other and she'll probably just tell you whatever you want to hear so that you stop having a go at her when she's feeling so crappy. You'll probably get lots of promises that she'll sort herself out and sober up but alcoholics are great at making those kinds of promises, particularly when they're hungover and feeling sorry for themselves. They're useless at sticking to them. That's why Al-Anon would recommend that you ignore what an alcoholic says they're going to do about their drinking and, instead, pay attention to what they do.

I know that it's hard to change how you see your friend but I think you have to realise that a parent who is only a "fantastic mum" when she's sober is not a fantastic mum. Being a good parent is (among many other things, of course) about being consistent and reliable. An alcoholic cannot be a consistent parent because their reactions will be wildly different depending on their blood-alcohol content. Someone who randomly drinks herself unconscious is totally unreliable. Turning Point produced a very informative and desperately sad report called Bottling It Up about the effects of parental alcohol problems on children. You should read it.

The other thing you need to realise is that you are enabling your friend's alcoholism to continue. You went out with a known alcoholic to a place that serves booze and you were allowing her to get away with stealing drinks. She drinks herself incapable and rather than taking the little girl to a place of safety, you stick around and make them dinner. You are complicit in hiding these problems from social services.

What would I do if I were in your shoes? I'd go to your friend and give her a choice - either she agrees to you taking the girl right now, or you are going to social services and telling them the truth.

If she is on the at risk register there are very serious issues. You need to take this seriously.

That should have been try to speak to her when she's sober. Drink is her number one I'm afraid you may need to call social services.

Snorbs I take on board everything in your post and will read that link. As for me going out with her, I didn't I was at a family members party and she turned up. I also was the one walking round telling people to hold onto their drinks. and the reason why.

Good luck with speaking to your friend, OP.

That poor little girl needs your help, whether it's directly, or indirectly by speaking to SS.

"this is not what is best for either of them"

I don't agree with you there OP - it is the best for both of them. This little girl must not be subjected to this a moment longer - SS need to know at the earliest that mum has spectacularly fallen off the wagon (as is always the case when returning to an addiction - it is much worse than before, if that's possible).

Alcoholics - all addicts - have to 'bottom out' in order to reach that day where life gets so unbearable that they truly do turn away from what is destroying not only their lives but those around them. We're talking about an 8yo girl here who needs protecting, absolutely immediately, who is exposed to this alone. It is a moot point, but constantly being on hand to help out when things get dire is actually putting off that bottoming out day iyswim. I know it is hard not to be on hand but tbh you must be brutal and refer to the relevant authorities, even if it means your friend loses custody of her child permanently. The damage to children exposed to a parental addiction like this is incalculable and can be (usually is ) lifelong one way or another.

I was listening to a journalist's account of George Best's last days on the radio the other day: at one point he was in the bath, fully clothed, and said "You know what? Nothing has ever meant more to be than the booze, I never loved anyone as much as I love it" and never a truer word was said: when the booze (or whatever) has the upper hand, nothing else gets a look in. You must act quickly OP

*me

Just a word of warning. This situation is a copy of what was happening in my family. By the time the mother realised she needed help it was too late and she died Christmas EVE, time is the issue here. Action is required NOW, not when you have all plucked up the courage.

Good luck - to ALL concerned, I really mean that.

Totally agree with cheeky - the liver has had a break and the sudden and heavy influx of masses of booze can bring about the above-mentioned scenario very suddenly . the decline can be shockingly fast - the little girl may be calling you because she's trying to wake her and this time..... Not being dramatic, I'm really not, I've seen it happen too - twice.

I have spoken to her and told her that she made an absoloute fool of herself last night. She had actually said this to me at the beginning of the conversation. She is ashamed and has said "I was doing so well staying off the drink I don't know whats happened"

I suggested J stays with either her dad or myself until she gets herself sorted out. She has said she will discuss it with her dad when he collects her later and let me know as she knows she is "Fucking up".

She may have been telling me what she thought I wanted to hear, maybe she was being genuine. She did sound genuine and is stone cold sober. She wants to meet me later and talk to me so this evening we will do so.

I can't do anything else until then.

Yes, she may well have told you want she and you want to hear - she may believe she means it - she probably does think she means it. But I'd tell her Monday morning that SS need to know monday morning - no time to lose, you're not being spiteful or mean, they have to know.

btw has she been going to AA meetings? she needs to go for years, regularly, at least once a week, hopefully much more, for a long time: residential rehab is not enough - nothing like tbh.

I think a letter/email can be a good way of getting this across to someone. Less drastic and aggressive than a full-on intervention but formal and clearly thought out enough to make it clear that you are seriously worried about her, so much so that you're operating together.
I don't know what the legal ramifications are of taking the child into your care. Without knowing how serious a drinker your friend is, it sounds like a good idea if she's such a bad drinker than she will need to do it in a supervised facility having the child away from it all will definitely be a good thing. But from what I know about addiction, the drying out itself is the easiest part in some ways the really hard work starts when you start to feel physically better and lose the drive to keep yourself dry/clean.
I think you definitely have to convince your friend she needs to stop drinking before you can do anything she's got to be fully signed up to it and all it involves promises to simply "cut down" or whatever aren't going to cut it.

I think you should write a calm, loving letter from the three of you saying you are seriously worried about her health and the wellbeing of the child, you believe the child could get taken into care unless she sorts herself out and if she wants help, you are available to help in any way you can, including looking after the child. If she can't respond to an appeal as heartfelt and grave as this then she's not ready to do it yet, but she will think about it very seriously.

I think springydaffs mention of AA is important. go on line now and find out where the nearest meeting is tonight and take her along.

I repeat 'time is of an essence', the last time the little girl I know phoned for help to say she couldn't wake her mommy was only 2 weeks before her mommy died. No time for niceness, nothing can be said that is going to make an alcoholic 'think about it'. IMO.

Please don't let this turn into a thread that says " I feel so guilty, why didn't I act quicker?"

Please listen to cheekey OP - time really could be very short. We were all so shocked when the two people we knew died suddenly - both of them back on the booze after a period of abstinence. A scenario like this isn't a one-off but is very common apparently.

she is going to ask J's dad to have her for a while so she can go to rehab. Its always going to be better than J going back into foster care.

She didn't remember anything about the other night and I am ashamed to say I had a go at her and told her what I thought.