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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think my 5yo ds is not racist?

126 replies

chr0nic · 27/05/2011 21:28

Today the teacher phoned to tell me my 5 yo ds had called another boy 'little Indian boy' Shock. My son was made to apologise but not made to understand why it was wrong. The teacher phoned the other boy's parents and so did I to apologise. I tried to explain to the boy's mother that my ds did not mean to be racist and does not understand the concept of racism. She did not accept this at all. Now she has banned my ds from playing with her ds. I feel sorry for my ds. Am I being too pfb? Should I have tackled this issue at an earlier age to prevent this from happening? What now?

OP posts:
Curiousmama · 27/05/2011 22:27

I think perhaps meditrina meant teachers are always watching their backs and having to be ultra PC? I remember saying something racist to a school friend in infants. It stuck so much because a lovely dinner lady told me sternly why I shouldn't say it. The girl had called me all bones (was very skinny) so I'd called her a name I shouldn't have. There was no fuss made seen as it was in the stone age though Wink Oh and we've been ok ever since that incident.

ChippingIn · 27/05/2011 22:29

There can't be an inch to move under that bridge this week.

worraliberty · 27/05/2011 22:30

Maybe 'no-one has had the balls to say it's the OPs fault' because they don't think it is? Hmm

Why would it need 'balls'??

Original poster
chr0nic · 27/05/2011 22:30

IprivateI I am posting for advice rather than to vent anger. I am not angry, just sad and confused and seeking advice and opinion. I appreciate your comments though. Thanks for your honesty.

OP posts:
MillyR · 27/05/2011 22:30

Meditrina is right, but if it was the case that someone had perceived it as racist, the school would have to record it as such. The OP has not said that has happened.

Sqee · 27/05/2011 22:30

worraliberty

Chipmonk :o

AgentZigzag · 27/05/2011 22:32

But that's just as bad meditrina, that 5 YOs are thinking about other typical 5 YOs behaviour (ie pushing/namecalling) through a racist framework.

Bad because it means they've either experienced it themselves or because they've had to be told about it so they can understand it if/when it happens.

worraliberty · 27/05/2011 22:34

OMG Sqee I love it! Grin

I'm going to mail that to my Nephew who is obsessed with them for some reason (the 'munks' not the 'monks') Grin

Sqee · 27/05/2011 22:43

:o

LDNmummy · 27/05/2011 22:45

I suppose as you live in a very white area, your son sees this other boy's appearance as something that marks him very different. Do you think he would say "little white boy" to another child of English heritage? Probably not. But he is very little and doesn't understand. If he knows the little boys name then it does beg the question as to why he didn't use it. I suppose he may have heard comments elsewhere and applied them in his situation. He is too young to knowingly be racist, but he is growing up in a racist world, sadly it will imprint on him, if even only slightly.

Sorry OP, it is a sad situation for everyone and the mother will probably cool off and realise your son is too young to have really meant it. Maybe it is time to get out the atlas and teach him about other countries and cultures?

Parietal · 27/05/2011 22:45

I'm sure the op's child didn't mean to be deliberately racist, but psychologists know that even 3 & 4 yr olds pick up on ideas about race from somewhere, without ever being taught it. So the parent is not necessarily to blame for a child who says inappropriate things.

There is some suggestion that it is important to openly discuss differences (e.g he has nice dark curly hair doesn't he. And you have blonde hair), rather than telling the child never to talk about hair / country of origin etc. Because to not talk implies that thing is bad.

NomadInNowhere · 27/05/2011 22:45

Oh for goodness sake, he is five! Unless he said it in an outwardly mocking/derogatory way. My hubby is African and have a mixed race DD, if someone of 5 years old said 'little African girl' to her or one of his/our family we would probably be laughing our socks off!! I would not take offense in the least. If they had said something outrightly racist or derogatory that would be a different story.
I really do think this PC stuff is getting out of control. I am sure it would be a very different story if 'the little Indian boy' had called your lad 'little English boy!' To me it just means that the woman thinks to herself that being Indian is somehow not something to be proud of.

MillyR · 27/05/2011 22:48

Nomad, being Indian is not something to be proud of if you are not actually Indian.

NomadInNowhere · 27/05/2011 22:49

Was he not Indian then Milly? Sorry didn't read the whole thread.

Sqee · 27/05/2011 22:56

Milly he is 5!

treas · 27/05/2011 22:58

I think op's little boy lost it a little bit with his friend and said the first unkind thing that came to his head - i.e. comments about the other child's appearance.

If op's little boy had been annoyed with my ds he would have probably called him a freckly ginger ninja! Children when cross don't think things through, they just respond in the most hurtful way they know in the heat of the moment, which is usually appearance related.

I'm not saying the op's ds should have been nasty in this way but it is just possible the school did not deal with this sensibly.

midlandsmumof4 · 27/05/2011 23:04

No-the school didn't deal with it sensibly but neither did the mum of the other child involved. She has banned them from playing together..Sad.

MilaMae · 27/05/2011 23:08

In a 10 year old yes I can understand concern but not a 5 year old. This is exactly the age when kids are starting to be more aware of the world around them and come out with inappropriate things.It's our job to put them on the right track.

Jesus in an average class of 5 year olds you'll hear all sorts of derogatory comments re all sorts of things.At this age kids need to be told which are inappropriate and educated accordingly.

Ringing a parent would be a strategy far up the list ie is she really unable to handle it herself,slightly concerning if she isn't.

Op get him a load of picture books with characters from different ethnic groups,explain how we're all different and talk things through if he makes any other ill advised comments, then just leave them to it. If the mother wants to blow it up out of all proportion there isn't much you can do. Within a year he'll have learnt what is appropriate and what isn't.

This time last year my curious 5 dd asked lots of questions re"brown people"Blush and children with disabilities.She's got several black dolls (and books featuring different ethnic groups) one she chose as she loved it's "puffball hair"Blush.We had many a conversation about phrasing things correctly l and how we're all the same but different. Now she knows exactly what is right and wrong in terms of language re race,commenting on differences with people etc.

5 year olds just haven't learnt political correctness at this age,some may if surrounded by cultural diversity others won't. Like all things some children will need more support (gentle discussion and educating).By KS2 most will have learnt.

I think the way this teacher has handled this could well cause a lot more damage than gently explaining why it was wrong.

beachyhead · 27/05/2011 23:08

It's such a tricky area..... my ds (9) came home to say that one of his friends is a gypsy... So I asked 'did he say he was a gypsy or a traveller?'... well he said he was a walking traveller, but he has houses here, and in America...

All I could say was well I'm sure he is a traveller with all those houses...

It's a bit of a minefield, trying to guide your children, I think...

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 27/05/2011 23:09

Sounds like the school over-reacted. Of course your son isn't racist. The school could have handled it far better by explaining about appropriate language. If the other boy had been fat, he might have said that instead. Just as unkind but nothing to do with race.

I'm a bit Hmm about the other mum's reaction though. I mean, if he'd have said 'Get off me little Sri Lankan boy' that would have been OK??? It's the mix-up of nationalities that bothers her?? I wonder if she's not a bit worried now that the school has phoned her, she probably thinks it was a big deal.

Personally, I'd write her a letter or an email. It can be easier to explain these things in writing and the mum will be able to reflect over things without needing to respond immediately.

treas · 27/05/2011 23:11

Agree with you there midlands - would banning them from playing together actually be enforceable at school? They kids will be best mates within 5 minutes unless the other child's mother brainwashes her son that op's ds is a racist.

NomadInNowhere · 27/05/2011 23:15

How do you explain to a 5 year old though that it's ok if someone calls him an English boy but he must not call another boy a Sri Lanken? Confused

piginmuck · 27/05/2011 23:32

The poor little boys. They have been dragged into a very adult argument that started as a simple playground squabble which handles in the right way could have been nipped in the bud very quickly. OP, I would say that your ds has probably heard the little boy referred to in this way from someone else (maybe another child whose family ARE racist).
I have a 5 year old ds and if he has done this then I would expect the teacher to explain to him why it was inappropriate and have a quiet word with me (I would probably be mortified because I would think that they thought he had got it from home - which would NEVER be the case) I would then have a had a discussion just as you did and maybe have asked him who else had used those words. That would be it though.
If this was an isolated incident then it seems ridiculous to suggest that he was being racist. Racism implies intent and prejudice. No, it wasn't very nice, in the same way that "Get off me fat boy" isn't nice as little Indian boy was obviously meant as an insult but he is FIVE - he has heard it used in a derogatory way somewhere and actually to describe someone as Indian or Sri Lankan or White or British or Black or whatever is not in itself racist, unless it is meant as an insult. Actually quite a difficult concept to explain to a 5 year old.
I feel for you but would seriously put it down to experience, keep doing what you are doing in teaching your ds tolerance and understanding of other people's feelings and give him a big cuddle because the poor little boy has lost a friend today.

unlucky67 · 28/05/2011 00:08

Piginmuck I agree upto a point but think that little indian boy may have just been used as a description by someone who didn't know the child's name. OPs 5yo has heard it, didn't know what it meant -it popped into his head and he tried it out as an insult...and lo and behold it has been made into one!
My DP is arabic, my DDs are mixed race in a very white area. I was talking to DP about the only other non-white family at the school - I said 'you know the Iranian family' - don't know if DD2 (4) heard or not but know that wouldn't mean anything to her...and could imagine it popping into her head and her using it some way or another to find out what it meant...
I find small children don't actually see skin colour as a big difference ..same family's son has a very very similar name to another (small for his age) white boy. I couldn't work out which one DD2 was talking about - she said 'not the small one'....whereas I know I would have used skin colour to distinguish between them...

suzikettles · 28/05/2011 00:22

If the mother doesn't like being mistaken for Indian then it's possible that her ds has told his friend that he doesn't like being called Indian.

So op's ds has used this against his friend in the heat of the moment?

I dunno, a good opportunity to talk to your ds about other cultures/colours and why people can get upset if you call them certain things. No more than that. It'll blow over.

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