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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think my 5yo ds is not racist?

126 replies

chr0nic · 27/05/2011 21:28

Today the teacher phoned to tell me my 5 yo ds had called another boy 'little Indian boy' Shock. My son was made to apologise but not made to understand why it was wrong. The teacher phoned the other boy's parents and so did I to apologise. I tried to explain to the boy's mother that my ds did not mean to be racist and does not understand the concept of racism. She did not accept this at all. Now she has banned my ds from playing with her ds. I feel sorry for my ds. Am I being too pfb? Should I have tackled this issue at an earlier age to prevent this from happening? What now?

OP posts:
LeoTheLateBloomer · 27/05/2011 21:58

The teacher is an idiot I'm afraid (and I'm saying that as a primary teacher myself).

She should has used it as an opportunity to discuss multiculturalism, not break up a bloody friendship.

LeoTheLateBloomer · 27/05/2011 21:58

have not has

FreudianSlipper · 27/05/2011 21:58

maybe the boys mother has suffered (and likely to have) problems with racism

and sri lankan's hate being called indian, well my family does :d

and no i do not think your son is being racist though its never to early to teach awareness.

MillyR · 27/05/2011 22:03

I think there is more to this. If they are best friends, and the child is from another country, how does your son not know what country his best friend is from. I would expect a 5 year old to know that.

Also the fact that he said it when saying 'Get off' when he knew the child's name does make it sound like it was said in some kind of conflict situation. Was the teacher actually phoning because the boys have had some kind of disagreement? If that is the case, the other mother might be telling them to stop playing because they have had a falling out, not because of the specific comment.

Sqee · 27/05/2011 22:04

Leo Absolutely! I think this situation has put their racial differences in a negative light which is never a good thing with impressionable 5yos. You should have a chat with the 'teacher' and suggest a talk on different race, gender ect.

Your son is most certainly NOT racist because unless he hears derogatory conversations about other races daily he would have no concept about that sort of thing.

Disgusting.

meditrina · 27/05/2011 22:07

It's not the world gone mad (well, perhaps it is) - it's a reflection of the current law, which means that if the person on the receiving end of a comment or action says they see it as racist, then it is. There is no test of "reasonableness".

YellowDinosaur · 27/05/2011 22:09

See even if he was using it to be derogatory at 5 it is NOT because he has decided that he doesn't like people from India is it, its going to be because he has heard it somewhere else.

Ds started talking about not liking people with brown skin at home a few months back. The wording he used, including 'they should go back to their own country' is so clearly NOT something a 5 year old has arrived to on their own and he hadn't got it at home. I talked to him about why it isn 't acceptable to make judgements about people based on what they look like (using the example of glasses and curly hair as ds has both of these) and that the colour of your skin is part of that. We talked about how you choose friends based on the way they behave and not how they look.

Then we spoke to his teacher and the out of school club so that they could keep a close eye on this and if he (or other children) made any racist comments it could be nipped in the bud. Ds hasn't mentioned this since apart from when I talked to him about it a couple of days later and has plenty of friends from other cultures as do we.

If I genuinely thought he was being racist I would come down on that like a tonne of bricks but he wasn't imho and none of the teachers I spoke to thought this was the case either.

The situation you describe is so much less than what my ds had said (admittedly not actually to another child) and his teachers were totally sensible. Yours have totally overreacted and created a difficult situation where your ds has no better understanding about what he said was wrong. They should have used it as an opportunity to talk about differences and other cultures. Political correctness gone mad.

The other mum is mad too - I get she might have this a lot but your son is only 5 and he was her ds's best friend so she should know that he is not racist since racists don't tend to have best friends from other cultures generally do they Hmm

chubbly · 27/05/2011 22:10

I think Lyingwitchs idea is lovely, it may cool off the other mum too. It's a shame for both boys, the other mum was a bit over protective - I worry about the day I have to explain racists to my kids as they will inevitably have it directed at them.

FreudianSlipper · 27/05/2011 22:10

if they were best friends he knows his name. children are capable of saying horrible things at that age though not always understanding the meaning behind it

sadly i think you son has picked this up from somewhere :( the boy has probably been referred to as that little indian boy by others

MillyR · 27/05/2011 22:12

The OP has never actually said that the school said her child was a racist. The school asked her child to apologise for making a particular remark.

forehead · 27/05/2011 22:13

I think it is unfair to suggest the other boy's mum is a 'loon' without being aware of the whole situation. The mother may have been a victim of racism herself and therefore may be extra sensitive.
If your son knows your son's name why the hell is he referring to him as ' the little Indian boy'

worraliberty · 27/05/2011 22:16

I hate it when adults are so quick to shout 'racist' at such young innocent children.

I saw a ticket inspector force a Mum and her toddler off a bus a few months ago because the little boy had said to his Mum "That Man looks like a monkey". The Mum immediately shhh'd him and said it was rude to say things like that but the guy went mental and said he 'didn't have to put up with racist jibes and that she should be ashamed to raise her son that way'.

FFS he couldn't have been much older than 2yrs old and apart from anything else, the man did look like an Ape. He just had that sort of look about him that would put you in mind of one. Some people have animal features, my uncle looks like a Squirrel..everyone says it, and Gail from Coronation St looks like a Chipmonk!

The poor woman tried to protest but you could see she was mortified Sad

hellymelly · 27/05/2011 22:17

I also think its likely he simply overheard the phrase at some point,maybe one of the mothers who didn't know the boy's name calling him "the little Indian boy" to someone,to clarify who she meant. Quite likely he would then repeat it in some way. (my dd who is six,quite often will use phrases that's she's heard in rl or on tv,in pretend play with dd2). This is a ridiculous over-reaction imo,he is only five after all,and the big broo ha ha about it in itself seems slightly racist to me.

LordOfTheFlies · 27/05/2011 22:17

It's difficult to know what children are told at school or hear from friends.
I was describing someone as " a black woman" and DS told me I was racist.This must've come from school,telly,friends as it isn't something we've actually discussed.

worraliberty · 27/05/2011 22:18

Chipmunk...unless he's a religious one of course Blush

Curiousmama · 27/05/2011 22:19

I was wondering why he'd describe him if he knows his name? Not like you'd say 'little white boy' to a white child? Think there needs to be some communication here. Depends on your child though? My ds1 would've got it at 5 but ds2 not so sure?

Original poster
chr0nic · 27/05/2011 22:20

I am absolutely not disputing the fact that it was not a nice, acceptable or correct way for my ds to refer to the other boy. It's more that I do not think my son meant to be racist.

And yes, when I spoke to the mother on the phone, she did say she felt offended for a member of her family to be called Indian when he is actually Sri Lankan. I think this is a fair point. I need to get a map book out and explain to my ds a little bit about where the boy comes from I think. Wish I had done it before. I also got the feeling from what the mother said that she had experienced difficulties with racism herself in the past.

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 27/05/2011 22:22

'it's a reflection of the current law, which means that if the person on the receiving end of a comment or action says they see it as racist, then it is.'

Are you suggesting the criminalisation of 5 YOs meditrina?

No thanks.

Curiousmama · 27/05/2011 22:23

Don't feel bad it's just something you've learnt. He wasn't being racist, he was being 5 ! If he's bright enough to understand a bit of geography then go for it. Am sure it'll blow over soon. Just try to be pleasant to the mum but if she starts blanking you then that's her problem.

HalfPastWine · 27/05/2011 22:24

Ridiculous. The bloody teacher needs re-educating if you ask me. She handled the situation very badly indeed and because of her actions she has opened a can of worms.

MillyR · 27/05/2011 22:24

But Chr0nic, has anyone actually called your son a racist? If not, I really don't think you should worry about it. Schools have to log racist incidents. The fact that such a log has presumably not been mentioned to you suggests that this event is not seen as being a massive deal. Schools do speak to parents about incidents of kids having a dispute, regardless of what kind of language is used.

IprivateI · 27/05/2011 22:26

"get off me little Indian boy" sounds racist to me. Best to nip this in the bud. I am taking your son didn't say it in a polite way either, not that there is a polite way to say something like that. Instead of being angry at the other mother for not allowing your son to play with hers, why don't you try to teach your son some manners and teach him why it is bad to say things like that? Maybe teach him at home that you don't talk down to people from other cultures and teach him all races are equal.

You seem to be getting alot of support here, which is a bit unfortunate, as not one person has had the balls to say that it's your fault. You're his parent. If they're not teaching about race in schools then it's your job to teach him. Don't put the blame on the Sri Lankan mother. All she is doing is protecting her son.

AgentZigzag · 27/05/2011 22:26

True Milly.

It's possible the mum's said for them to not be friends for other reasons, like they spark each other off and just generally don't get on.

TheSecondComing · 27/05/2011 22:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meditrina · 27/05/2011 22:27

AgentZigZag: No I'm not (under 10s can't be anyhow).

I'm simply pointing out the status quo that racism is in the eye of the beholder - so a comment, no matter how innocently meant, that is construed by the recipient as racist must be handled as such.