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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that being confrontational is not good parenting...

52 replies

GrownUpNow · 23/05/2011 20:17

After another episode with my mother, I am really sitting down questioning whether there is any place at all for the way she treats my children in parenting at all.

My DD (aged 2) has been off on one all day today. She's changed rooms recently and is finding the lighter room harder to settle in. Thus she is sleeping later and waking earlier. This has a knock on effect on her behaviour, she's grouchy, moody and tantrumming at the drop of a hat. My method for dealing with her tantrums is to pretty much completely ignore the behaviour, unless it becomes violent or destructive, to which I tell her NO! and remove her to a time out area (her room at home, or a step elsewhere).

Yes it's loud, and inconvenient, and even outright annoying sometimes. But it's a natural part of development, I'm dealing with it in the best way I find for my DD, which is to not give her what it is she wants. I find that with her she mirrors behaviour, so if I get cross or shout, she often gets much worse and at almost bedtime I find it more constructive to just be firm, ignore, remove, then explain (when she calms down).

My mum is just awful. Apparently I am completely passive and my DD will learn nothing. If she was hers she'd have her up by the ankles and leather her arse (her own words). Her children would never have dared to act like this as we got put in our rooms with the door closed and locked at any sign of tantrums. She was saying all sorts of passive aggressive things to my DD, at one point called her stupid, and told her to get out as she didn't want to listen to her. Not to come back until she was nice again.

We had words of course, because I don't find my mother's tantrum any more acceptable than my DDs. My mother believes that you need to scare children, or have them be scared of you. She is not averse to screaming and shouting in their faces. She can be completely dismissive of them verbally, even outright offensive, and often flings them about a bit roughly when they are misbehaving. This is how she parented me. Full of love and treats and presents all the time, but the minute you show any bad behaviour it's all getting taken away by big scary Mum/Granny.

AIBU to think that you can raise children without scaring them and that belittling them is just wrong? Surely you don't need to be shrieking and walloping their arses to get the message through that you are cross with them?

I get completely paranoid that my mum is right and I am wrong because she makes me out to be so ineffectual, and yes I do get challenging behaviour from my children, but on comparison they seem no worse than other children their age, and in fact in many ways are very good in some ways.

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 23/05/2011 20:27

Your mother is wrong, my children even from a very young age were more like my friends, I treated my children with respect and in return over the years they learnt to respect others.

There is no excuse for manhandling a child you are on the right track.

Earwiggo · 23/05/2011 20:27

Yanbu but have to admit I didn't manage to read all of your post. I don't even let my 2yo know I am unhappy with him if I can help it, I ignore the bad and praise the good, uness the bad is hurting someone/dangerous.

GrownUpNow · 23/05/2011 20:31

It was a bit of a text mountain, wasn't it. I'm looking for some sort of book to read on child development and non-confrontational parenting, if anyone can help. I need to build my confidence so I don't doubt myself so much.

My mum can forget and re-write the past present and future to suit her and make you feel completely insane if you remember or feel differently to her.

OP posts:
saidthespiderwithahorridsmile · 23/05/2011 20:33

you're right. She's wrong. Stick to your guns

and have a , a Brew and a Biscuit

pozzled · 23/05/2011 20:37

I agree with you. I think losing your temper with a child just sets a bad example, and if you can't talk to them calmly then you should walk away for a few moments until you can.

Like you I find that my 2 year-old responds much much better to a calm (but very firm) tone of voice than to shouting/threatening etc. I think the key thing is that your daughter is not being allowed to have her own way- when she has a tantrum you don't give her what she wants. Or if she tantrums when she doesn't want to do something, she still has to do it when she has calmed down. that way she will learn that all the screaming and shouting doesn't actually achieve anything.

MilaMae · 23/05/2011 20:39

Hmm I think neither extreme is good to be frank.

At 2 I think you've got a point and confrontation will never work however ignoring bad behaviour as behaviour management aint going to be possible for ever.By 3 you'll need other methods too and that's when the fun begins.

Scary mum is necessary at times otherwise your dc will have a bit of a wake up call in the big wide world.Not everybody will just ignore their bad behaviour.

activate · 23/05/2011 20:42

I think you are being rather ineffectual too if I'm honest but I don't agree with your mother's point of view

however in the end it boils down to the fact that there are so many different ways to parent that you as the mother / father choose your own way and that is the only right way for your children

and I think that's the end of it tbh

CogitoErgoSometimes · 23/05/2011 20:42

" My mother believes that you need to scare children, or have them be scared of you."

I'm not sure whether 'scared' is really the right word here, but I truly believe that you have to develop a more imposing persona for when the need arises. A change of tone of voice, insisting the child looks straight at you when you are talking, removing the smile from your face, and other measures that instantly communicate 'I am very displeased with you'. Too often I see mums chatting nicely to children in a soft 'la-la' way one second and then, seamlessly, they use exactly the same voice to tell the child to stop doing something. Of course, the child takes no notice because the don't pick up that there's been a change.

I don't think you can entirely avoid confrontation successfully with children. And, the way I see it, is that one day they will be sat in a classroom or a worklplace and getting told to do something... like it or not. So they might as well learn how that feels from someone that cares about them.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 23/05/2011 20:42

YADBU in allowing yourself to think for one second that your mum is right - let alone be paranoid about it.

YADNBU to raise your children without resorting to physical and emotional abuse and to set them an example that, hopefully, they'll rely on when you become a dg.

If I had a mother like yours and she wasn't prepared to curb her behaviour, she'd only have minimal contact with my dcs - and I'd have turned her into a figure of fun, a kind of borderline schizophrenic Wicked Witch of the West, to minimise the damage that irrational adults can inflict on younger and/or weaker individuals.

doley · 23/05/2011 20:46

I think with tantrums they should always be ignored ,and not pandered to .

I did this with both my boys ,and they very rarely continued .

With my DD (she is 2 )I am continuing with that method .

At 3 ,the 'tantrums' are of a different nature ,the child has a better understanding and more ways/words to explain their needs .

You are correct ,your style will work in the long run IMO :)

GrownUpNow · 23/05/2011 20:51

Oh yes, I don't mean never ever shouting. I do plenty of that as I am only human. I have the sharp tone and am able to show my children I am cross with them. I just don't think that you HAVE to scream and shout to show that, if that makes sense. That you can do cross and have their attention, but not have them live in fear of you exploding.

And I take into account their age and the level of understanding they have, my mother seems to think it's personal, that they misbehave simply to annoy her, and that it's always got to be a battle of wills. She said to me once, it's like horses, you have to break them so they will do what you want them to.

Surely there's a balance to be had. I don't want to never shout or even smack, I just don't want to believe that my mother's way is the only way to raise children who behave.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 23/05/2011 20:58

There is no one right way. Depends on the child, the age, the situation and the personalities.

GrownUpNow · 23/05/2011 21:04

So if I choose to parent in my own way, then she should respect that. I've just reached my limit at the moment, she drove away because my DD was having a tantrum yesterday, and she told us to get out because of her having one today. I think some time out might be a good thing, because I am reaching the point where I am going to tell her no more.

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 23/05/2011 21:08

I cannot understand why people "ignore the bad".. how is a child supposed to learn that their behaviour is bad if nobody tells them?

doley · 23/05/2011 21:13

I personally don't ignore bad behaviour ,I just ignore tantrums from 2 year olds.

I think they are in a class of their own and don't need any extra time spent on them .

My children have composed themselves quite quickly when I don't take any notice .

When they stop ,we normally do something fun afterwards .

I like to show that that type of behaviour get them nowhere .

nailak · 23/05/2011 21:14

thats just mothers for you, they always think you doin it wron and coz they see the kids once a week they know how to handle them better then you do.... dont take it personally, just nod your head and hold your tonue

squeakytoy · 23/05/2011 21:15

When they stop ,we normally do something fun afterwards

Confused but surely that is rewarding bad behaviour and condoning it...

That is telling the child that if they have a tantrum, once they decide to stop, Mummy will give them a treat...

doley · 23/05/2011 21:22

No ,it is showing that when they STOP we do something nice ,

I do not give in to the tantrum request .

And I said "normally" real life dictates that that does not always happen .

When they have calmed down ,we go and read a book ,color ....

doley · 23/05/2011 21:24

I also believe children do not have tantrums to wind us up ,they have them because they feel powerless .

I am an adult ,I can wait till they calm down .:)

GrownUpNow · 23/05/2011 22:06

By ignoring, I don't mean completely pretending that the tantrum doesn't exist, but I tend to give them one warning to stop, and if they do not then I ignore the worst of it (barring hitting out at people or things) and have a firm word with them when they have calmed down about why it was unacceptable.

Sometimes I believe that my DD only wants some control in her life, that she feels unable to say what she wants or do what she wants, so she tries to act in a way that gives her control of the situation. It doesn't matter if this control is to make mummy give her negative attention, because it's attention nonetheless. So after a sharp reprimand, usually telling her no and why it's no, if she tantrums, I am impervious to it. And when she is finished, the answer is still always no. To me, shouting or smacking or bargaining or threatening whilst she is in a state of tantrum does nothing. The best time to act is immediately, then if that doesn't work, to act when they are calmed again. And to be firm, but not to make it a battle of wills about who can scream the loudest.

OP posts:
Vilt · 23/05/2011 22:11

Just to quickly recommend a book called Unconditional Parenting.

I think there may be a thread about it somewhere.

Sorry to be so brief, baby crying......

sleepingsowell · 23/05/2011 22:18

doley, I agree with you. 'doing something nice' after a child has stopped tantrumming is not rewarding them for bad behaviour, it's a right and necessary step to move the mood along and set things right again in terms of you and the child.

What's the alternative? Sit there and sulk that a two year old has had a perfectly developmentally normal (and necessary actually) tantrum?!

OP keep on how you are - you are right and your mother's approach is so wrong.

I can second Unconditional parenting - great read for people who want to take a thoughtful and nurturing approach imo.

MilaMae · 23/05/2011 22:24

I don't think adults always can wait until a 2 year old calms down as the world doesn't revolve around said 2 year old.

Personally I think totally ignoring a tantrum can be a tad cruel at times as a tantruming child is trying to say something,totally blanking a child in distress will make a child feel very powerless.It's funny I guess I'm a lot more confrontational but none of my 3 had these continual tantrums,maybe the odd one or two.I'm wondering if she's doing it more to get attention due to the ignoring being upsetting.

It's all about balance,yes too much is not good but zero confrontation aint good either.

I don't think you can't run away from confrontation for ever. I'm wondering if you're near the end already.Most 2 year olds can be distracted and aren't tantruming all the time. If your child is nearer 3 than 2 maybe it's time to have a few consequences ie we're not going to the park now because you've made us too late.If you can do........ next time we'll have time and will go.Maybe the step or it's equivalent.

I agree with Squeaky and also the poster that said it's far kinder for a child to experience confrontation initially from somebody who loves them rather than a stranger in the bigger,wider world.

crashingwaves · 23/05/2011 22:26

I am all for the carrot and stick approach, I do think some parents resort to whole hearted vegetarianism though ...

GrownUpNow · 23/05/2011 22:45

I'm treading carefully. I am trying to find the line between my own childhood abuse and a natural and successful way of parenting a child that shows love, tolerance and most of all gives them security and self esteem. My older child didn't have tantrums like this, my youngest has been a challenge all round, from pregnancy through to now as we're reaching her third year, so I am guessing some of it is her personality. She's not a constant tantrum, admittedly there have been a lot recently, after a change in her sleeping place and her being less rested.

I think I need some sort of help or therapy, I associate anger with violence and fear, and I find it a very difficult emotion to express with any sort of control. I don't want my children to grow up as I did, but nor do I want to raise them to be difficult children and adults.

OP posts:
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