..to think milk formula companies shouldn't price-fix?

[gallicgirl]

We initially used Aptamil as we believed the drippy nurse who told us it was most like breast milk, then had reflux issues to swapped to SMA staydown milk which was slightly less than the Aptamil I think. Now been prescribed infant gaviscon so we've swapped to normal SMA. The first few tins we bought were around the £7.50 mark so we were pleased that we were spending a bit less. Every penny counts and all that.

However, just been to buy some more formula and it was £8.99 in Morrisons. It was also £8.99 in Tesco yesterday. Just checked online and it's £8.99 at Sainsbury's, Asda and Boots (obviously it's more in Mothercare). When I've bought the SMA before it's been slightly different prices in different shops. I know food prices have gone up and shops can't offer discounts and the like, but I'm suspicious that it's exactly the same price in every store.

It's a 20% price rise!!! I can't believe that wholesale costs have risen that much.

What if a woman chooses not to bf because she found it so difficult to bf due to the crap support from her first child?

sorry "for" not "from"

If we're going to put that much effort into training midwives maybe we should train them in bf support...

I'm not the bf police here! But surely you reasonale people can see the there is a difference between someone that has tried but struggled to bf and then given up and someone who didn't even bother to try.

No? Then it's not me that's being unreasonable.

I made a suggestion. You don't agree. That's fine. Most women have a choice, but for the few that truly don't, I don't think prescription formula is that ridiculous an idea.

It's not as simple as that though so impossible to put into practice.

Prescription formula isn't a ridiculous idea, trying to decide who has tried hard enough to breastfeed first is pretty ridiculous though.

Surely a doctor or midwife would be able to tell if it was a medical need? That's not the same as struggling with pain and cracked nipples that most bf Mums get.

"I'm not the bf police here! But surely you reasonale people can see the there is a difference between someone that has tried but struggled to bf and then given up and someone who didn't even bother to try."

Women who don't initiate breastfeeding may be extremely young. They may come from communities where breastfeeding is very, very unusual. It may be something they feel completely unfamiliar with and have no confidence in at all. They may have never known a single woman who's breastfed successfully. Bottlefeeding is what they know and feel comfortable with. They may have had a highly distressing previous experience of breastfeeding which has stopped them wanting to try again.

It's not that these women 'don't bother to try'. They have no confidence in breastfeeding and it's culturally alien to them. It's completely rationale that they should choose to feed their babies by a method they understand and feel familiar with.

oh here we go again the same old bolloks, the smug BF bashing ff, well done if you could bf, but ffs get a grip and stop bashing people who couldn't in the big scheme of things one day you will realise it isn't that big a deal.
(general post not directed at any one, just fed up at seing grown woman being so f ing childish)

I understand that completely spudulika. And that's fine, I honestly don't judge people negatively for choosing not to bf. I'm just saying that some Mothers that have a medical need to use formula could be given it for free.

Ritamorgan - I think your suggestion sounds good in theory, but is flawed in practice. How would you draw the line on who "needs" it for free? Anyone who wants formula for free would simply pretend that they intended to breastfeed, but then feign various "issues" with it to their GPs and HVs such as soreness, emotional distress etc, all of these in certain circumstances could be valid reasons to give up breastfeeding, but how ould you decided which of these cases are genuine? Yes some cases are cut and dry - but many are not.

Plus the NHS is already struggling, offering free formula on the NHS would be impossible I feel, though rightly or wrongly it is already prescribed to those with certain medical problems such as lactose intolerance and reflux.

Im curious, does anyone know how the price per gram correlates with the amount of ounces it makes up? I've bough whatever is cheapest ( to no detriment of the child it appears) and the scoops seem to be different sizes.

bubblecoral

"I honestly don't judge people negatively for choosing not to bf."

And yet you also talk about people who "even even bother to try" to bf.

Sounds pretty judgey to me.

YABU possibly as stores can not discount the milk, so whilst some may buy it in larger quantities than others, they have to sell it at the price stated by the manufacturer (at least, that's how I think the system works - does anyone know? - 5.1 under the International Code states no form of promotion to general public).

Having just looked online via MySupermarket, prices do vary between manufacturers... for Stage 1 powder, range is currently 83.9p to 99.9p per 100g.

Also spotted that one retailer (won't say whom as it may then make this message on Mumsnet be a babymilk promotion) is selling one brand of baby milk (see won't even mention the brand should that be against the International Code) at a different price to the other retailers. Not sure how that's possible without it being considered to be a promotion - but then I don't fully understand the International Code.

notthewowy - good question, wonder if it's possible to find out - no details on manufacturers websites from what I can see. Are the scoops different sizes, or just different shapes? I can't imagine there would be a lot in it between the different scoops... or has anyone noticed that some brands use a lot more grams of the powder than others?

Then you're reading too much into what I wrote duckdodgers

Without trying to sound even worse, I really don't care what other people feed their babies. Breast or bottle, it's a very tiny part of parenting, and there are much more significant issues to get judgey about if I want to.

Right - it really is time that someone who has an issue with people women/families choosing to FF (for whatever reason, be it medical or social etc) actually puts their judgey pants on the line and starts the thread:

"FF - tell me why and I will tell you if that is an acceptable reason"

I am sick of hearing FF being bashed, then along comes a FFer with an explanation. "Oh no, I didn't mean you, you are an exception" says Judgey Pants. Or "oh, I only wish BF support was better, then you could have made the decision I would have made".

Bring it on.

And as to the OP's question of competition in formula pricing - I really think there should be competition. The majority of formula is bought for babies who are already formula fed, any artificially high prices are detrimental to those families, just to make sure that a few people aren't put off BF. After all, what BF mother thinks "well, BF is going swimmingly, but I see that SMA is on 3 for 2 this week, so I think I will forget the sanctimonious lectures of the HCP I have seen over the past year and switch over". Just remember, breast is best, unless Aptamil is 50p cheaper at Asda than Tesco.

It was meant to say "dont even bother to try" not "even even" btw too much

Well maybe I am "reading too much into it" bubble but by saying people havent bothered to bf - instead of choosing not to bf - then it does sound a bit judgemental to me. You know like people should "bother" i.e make more of an effort.

FAir enough, I probably didn't write it the way it sounded in my head. But I was thinking it in the context of comparing people who physically cannot bf for medical reasons compared to someone who makes a choice to ff.

But lets face it, people sometimes make the choice to ff without trying to bf. Why am I so wrong for stating a fact? They didn't bother trying. For whatever reason. Not my place to decide of their resaons for not trying are good enough, and like I said, someone elses choice that has no effect on my life really doesn't worry me.

Honestly though, the way people go on about it on MN, it's like we are talking about black people when the N word rightly began to become unnacceptable.

There really is no need for people to get so defensive about ff.

Well we won't get defensive if you don't get judgey. Okay? Even the distinction between medical reasons and other reasons is blurred.

Ok.

And no you are not wrong with stating a fact, yes people do choose to ff without trying bf, of course they do. Guess we will just have to agree/disagree though with choice of terminology - you see it as people not "bothering" tb bf still, I see it as people choosing not to bf.

Ok

I can definately concede that my choice of terminology is not perfect at the best of times, let alone on a Saturday night!

Has that bomb finished exploding yet?

I have no problem paying for formula and certainly don't think I should get it free! I also totally understand why it's not discounted or allowed to be promoted. I was just slightly shocked at the level of the increase as it seemed a big jump all at once.

Also, as someone said, there has been competition between retailers as there usually are price differences and I think there should be competition to some extent or the shops could just increase their profit margins as high as they liked which really would be detrimental.

It's not a cost we factored into having a baby particularly as my intention was always to BF which I did for a short while but stopped for a whole variety of reasons - lack of support being a big one. Advertising certainly wasn't a factor because when asked in hospital I couldn't even name a brand of formula. I guess I just have to suck it up and get on with it.

Thank you to people who have suggested alternative brands or retailers.

InAStateofReflux - I'm not suggesting free formula for medical issues (though that already happens to some extent - babies with dairy allergies etc), I'm suggesting the NHS could buy/produce a cheap, generic formula that formula feeding parents could buy at or near cost. It would be massively cheaper than buying formula off the shelves as the big company's profit margin would be removed. Breastfeeding mothers who want to buy occasional bottles of formula for convenience, or people who believe the hype and want to buy posh formula, could still buy it off the shelves.

Another poster, bubblecorral, has suggested free formula only for those with the rare medical issues that physically prevent breastfeeding.

It is an interesting idea, granted. I just don't think the NHS would ever want to be seen as advocating ff in any way, which is stupid as I believe that those who want to breast feed will breast feed if they can, and those who don't want to, won't, regardless of any intervention.

Plus, formula is simply a food for babies. Why should the NHS be involved in supplying it, they don't supply food for older children or adults? We all need to feed our babies and I think in the same way we budget for other expenses we should accept that we also have to budget for feeding our children. Some of us may be lucky in that we can feed our children ourselves for x amount of time, but we should be prepared that this might not be the case.

I think all the regulations should be lifted tbh, the there would be healthy competiton and we would be paying a fair price for formula. TBH I don't think at the moment it is very overpriced, but as it is the case that no special offers etc are allowed, then this is a bit ridiculous I think. It just means that you are increasing the profits of the formula companies. Plus I think supermarkets are probably afraid to bring out own-brands etc as formula is sucha dirty word I think they are afraid of causing controversy.

IT seems silly as they wouldn't be afraid of selling own-brand alcohol for instance, which probably causes more people more harm than a bottle of formula ever has...