to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

I agree exoticfruit. Although if they are treated as differently as the post suggests it's no shock people have picked up on it!

I went to private school. I left with excellent academic results... and no idea of my true ability. I'd been coached, hothoused, whatever you want to call it and ended up having a breakdown at university as I'd enrolled in a really academic 'high achieving' course that I just couldn't handle without the support of small classes and very very supportive staff.

We'd been taught to the exam, which got us in to excellent universities but in many cases left us without the self knowledge and ability to study independently. My friends that had come from state school were far more able to cope with the less supported style of higher education.

I'm not saying private or state education are right or wrong - just that my independent school education didn't do me as many favours in the long run as my mum had predicted. I had a big bump to earth when I hit 'real life'!

MissBetsy, I had a similar shock at uni and I came from a comprehensive. Most kids at my school left at 16 so my 4 A Level classes consisted on 4, 4, 9 and 14 children! In the subject that I took for degree we were dictated all the notes and taught how to answer questions in the way the examiner wanted.

When I got to Uni I remember being given a seminar to prepare in my first week with another girl in my tutor group. We went to the library and I stoof helplessly in the right section staring at the seas of specialist critical books hoping the see the brightly coloured illustrated textbook with all the answers in! I didn't know where to start and completely freaked. The girl I was with was calm, competent and had been taught how to research. She was from Private school.

Our experience wasn't a reflection of state vs private, it was a reflection of my school vs her school. Hers had prepared her well (as many privates and states do) and mine hadn't (as some privates and states don't).

There are very few poor DC in private education, always the exceptions. It would worry me that they couldn't participate fully and I really wouldn't want to send them if everyone knew their home circumstances.
I think it just goes to prove that private doesn't =good MissBetsy. Private has the whole range from excellent to dire the same as state. I would imagine that the majority are well able to cope in the real world. I would imagine those from Eton wouldn't have your problem!

manicinsomniac - the school isn't required by law to provide financial assistance. But if it wants charitable status (i.e. tax breaks) it must show evidence of doing something to benefit the wider community. Most private schools do this by providing bursaries; it's a relatively easy, cheap way of meeting the Charity commission requirements without changing the 'character' of the school, and so allows it to continue accruing financial benefit, paid for by taxpayers.

MissBetsyTrotwood - that's a really interesting post.

ah right, thanks hester.

in my case - of course there were things I couldn't participate in. but I don't think there was a single child at the school who participated in everything

ther was a hell of a lot my school did for me, and they included over and above what they "should" have (ie tuition fees paid). I had extra music lessons (in 2 instruments), at times 3 meals a day rather than just lunch, and I always had a bed available to me (my home life was less than stable)

I was able to go on any and all educational trips. but yes, the other trips - skiing, other holiday-types - then no, the school did not pay for those for me. why woudl they? I was not the only child not going.

yes, my background was very different form some at the school.

but then, my backgorund was very different from most of those in my home town too - shoudl I not have mixed with those friends, because they had more than me? shoudl I not have continued with my ballet (also given for free, once we coudl not pay) because there was not a single other homeless child there? or is that ok to join in with, because it wasn't a private school, but a local effort?

should I not have gone along on those theatre trips, where the other families subsidised me, because I could not afford the programme/drink at interval/t shirt momento?

where does that line of argument stop?

yes, there were some people at my school who looked down on me because I was not "one of them". were they worth knowing or bothering about? absolutely not.

and don't kid yourselves that there would not have been comments about my background if I had been at a state school. when you are at the extreme end of acceptable life - homeless, with literally no money, you don't "fit in" easily anywhere. and I say that in quote marks because my school days were some of the happiest of my life - I had a wonderful group of friends, a fantastic experience, and an education that was worth far more than the moentary value (individual lessons at A level, extra subjects put on just for me etc)

DS school includes everything in the fees so a full bursary would enable you to access a really full educational life there.

DD's school is a bugger for extras. Our bill is usually peppered with them. I will mkae it my business today to mail the burar and ask if bursaries cover extras...because I think it really should, otherwise what the school offers is not really being made available.

And silverfrogs yes you are right that being dirt poor is no more fun at state school...I speak from experience.

Ah yes, this "charitable status" thing.

Rermind me, which schools is it that are current engaged in a legal battle to stop the Charity Commission forcing them to offer more bursaries and to open theri facilitites to a wider selection of people?

Oh, and in case anyone is in any doubt, it is incredibly rare to get a full bursary. They are usually a %age - still leaving a sizeable whack for parents to find.

Yes, seeker, the end result being that the tax payer in effect pays the school to subsidise parents who are already very well off.

Seeker,
Incredibly rare? Are you sure? My school offers two full bursaries per year group so that's 20 children out of a school of 420ish. I doubt that we're an exceptional case otherwise we wouldn't do it (after all, private schools are businesses and not known for being overly compassionate towards the poor!)

Where are you getting your information from? Remember most schools won't post all their bursaries on the websites because they're often made to allow children to take up scholarships or to help out families who have experienced a sudden death or redundancy in the family.

Unless you have worked in or have other inside info about a good range of private schools then I think the way you are stating your ideas as facts ("there are no poor children in private schools" and "it is incredibly rare to get a full bursary") are unfair. I have only worked in one and have no previous experience of them so can only speak as I find. Therefore I'm not saying you are definitely wrong just asking if you are certain that you're right?

ftr, I don't think private schools should have charitable status, it's a joke!

Two is quite rare i think. There are no full bursaries out of the five private schools in the middle of the town where I live. All are 50% or less and you have to earn less than 20k to get the 50% anyway.

hester, no school would offer any sort of bursary to a family that would be seen as well off.

DDs school states that bursaries are unlikely to be offered to anyone with a household income over £40k, and even those would be expected to use all their savings, downsize to a small house/flat and only drive old cars. Mothers would be expected to go out to work unless they had preschool children to care for.

And full bursaries only open to those earning £15k or less.

Not my idea of wealthy.

neverforget - what ANYONE??? What is the point of that?

sorry don't understand the quuestion.

If you mean what is they point of those bursaries, I would say, exactly !

The only people I have ever known to take them are the drop out children of millionaires who still live at home and have a kid/kids. The grandparents pay the excess and they have no property of their own or income so they can apply. Insane IMVHO

Yes that's what I meant, Thereisnotry.

No point in chucking money at those who already have it. That is hardly going to widen access to bright DCs with parents on lower incomes.

I went to a school which I remember with fondness. They are NOW constantly asking me for money for bursaries to fund less wealthy clever girls through the school. Now a part of me that thinks, I had the advantage, who am I say a person with less resources wouldn't benefit from a private education at this particular school, would donate money for these bursaries.
Except when I see how much they are spending on upgrading the facilities. They are spending millions of pounds on things that imo you don't need. We never had them when we were at the school, these state of the art Performance Centres, Editing Suites, Language Labs. The school was considered excellent then, without these extras.
The school is a business, competing with other businesses to attract customers. The bursary side is just to keep it ticking over as a charitable foundation. If they were really committed to bursaries, they would increase the number of means tested bursaries, and stop spending money on Window Dressing. The same would be true of all the big Public Schools which spend enormous amounts of money massively upgrading their facilities. TO COMPETE.

The school I work in gives away roughly 11 percent of turnover annually in bursaries.there are several on 100 percent a couple on 100 plus to cover bus fares,uniform and essential trips.Most are on roughly half fees

The industry average for senior schools is about 8 percent

They appeal to us, as products of this particular school, in the spirit of the school, saying we will understand what a special gift the school was TO US, yet the school is a completely different place to what it was when we went there.

I think that sounds much better mrswoodentop although I suppose there will always be acrimony between those with larger outgoings/more children/high income who pay more than those with smaller outgoings/small income/few children. Perhaps all these things are taken into consideration.