to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

I. Did. Not. Say. They. Have. An. Educational. Advantage.

(ludicrosity is not a word, by the way).

gooseberry - good luck.

I need a lie down after reading the pages since 10pm last night. And "ludicrosity" should be a word (if it's not). I'm going to use it often, from now onwards.

Joan you brought up my old Skoda again. My point with that was, that if I had confidence in the local state schools to educate my DS to his full potential then I would have £10K or so a year more than I do now. (I know poor me, lucky me whatever....).

I would use some of this money to update my car like so many state school mums I know who choose not to spend their money on their DC's education, but on nice things for themselves (cars, expensive clothes, designer shoes, a bigger house).

It is not a "sacrifice" for which I feel I need congratulating, or to have people take the piss out of me for - it is a simple fact.

diablo - that was so well put.

We are about to go into the Private system with our two boys. If we went into the state system then we would have the money to retire earlier / have a more comfortable retirement / travel more / buy a larger house. We are choosing not to so that we can give our boys a private education.

And the same with us ....

"It is not a "sacrifice" for which I feel I need congratulating, or to have people take the piss out of me for - it is a simple fact"

Add message | Report | Message poster JoanofArgos Wed 25-May-11 15:35:13
so if your child gets a C at GCSE, will he/she have failed? Or will the school have failed him/her? Or what?

And thats why some parents what their children in different schools to the type your happy to put your child in to me c is not a good grade in state school c might be considered a good grade but in our home we aim high and have high expectations

Thats the whole problem with majority of state schools mediocrity is celebrated and some parents don't want that

If your happy with a c good for you but I want a school were getting a*
Is the norm and anything below a b is not good enough

wordfactory yes - agree about the list, all of which we get and are and are very happy with in Ds's indie school.

And after reading the thread about the mother being given a hard time for not being able to get to the school soon enough to pick up her sick DC - I am even more convinced that we are making the right decision to go private.

We are in a position where I can choose to work and so pay the school fees out of my salary and we live off DHs salary. Or I could be a SAHM and send the boys to state.

In our view its a no-brainer and I will work so that we can send the boys private.

And again I will quote diablo:

"It is not a "sacrifice" for which I feel I need congratulating, or to have people take the piss out of me for - it is a simple fact"

Well quite: but I once heard of an isolated incident in a private school as well, so for me it's a no brainer that state is the only way to go.

Your comment about state educated children getting to university in spite (it's two words) of their schools, thesethings was ignorant, ill-informed, offensive and preposterous.

'majority of state schools mediocrity is celebrated'

Sorry maypole, but that's bollocks. It depends very much on what 'raw material' the school is getting. Joan talked about value added earlier which, as a measure, is often taken more notice of than actual attainment, in state schools.

I have taught in schools with a high percentage of SEN pupils, lots of kids on free school meals, kids with the most chaotic and difficult home lives, illiterate parents, parent with MH problems, parents with substance misuse problems..... In such schools, yes, 'C' grades can often be celebrated because they will be a huge achievement for many of those pupils in an environment where there will be plenty of students not getting a grade at all. That doesn't mean that expectations are necessarily low. Students are still encouraged to aim high by most of the staff. Even in those schools, there are still A grades but of course they are in the minority.

I have also worked in schools where the intake is very different. Kids who come from stable, loving homes with University-educated parents on good salaries. Very different demographic and very different results. Expectations still high.

I have to say, my personal preference is to work in the rougher schools. Bloody hard work and depressing at times but my goodness, some absolutely superb kids who taught me an awful lot.

maypole What I don't get is that you 'want a school were getting a*
Is the norm and anything below a b is not good enough' and the reason you are getting this is purely because you live in an area where such a state school is available.

"I have taught in schools with a high percentage of SEN pupils, lots of kids on free school meals, kids with the most chaotic and difficult home lives, illiterate parents, parent with MH problems, parents with substance misuse problems..... In such schools, yes, 'C' grades can often be celebrated because they will be a huge achievement for many of those pupils in an environment where there will be plenty of students not getting a grade at all. That doesn't mean that expectations are necessarily low. Students are still encouraged to aim high by most of the staff. Even in those schools, there are still A grades but of course they are in the minority."

I agree with you olifin but, bar the free school meals bit, you could apply the same paragraph to children in private schools as well as state. Certainly where I work we have children with SEN and children with home lives from Hell (dead parents, terminally ill family, bouncing around between acrimoniously divorced parents, parents in jail, parents who are bipolar, families well known to social services, abused children, parents who are victims of domestic violence etc etc etc)

Private schools don't guarantee a string of A grades for a bunch of kids with idyllic lives and State schools don't guarantee a string of D grades for children with troubled backgrounds. Most schools help the children they take to achieve the best that they can, regardless of whether they're state or private. Any school that doesn't is a bad school, regardless of whether it's private or state.

And the one type of child that you will never find in a private school is a poor child. And poverty is, sadly, they single most accurate indicator of academic achievement - or lack of it.

But you will find 'poor children' in private schools, many private schools offer bursaries. DD's friend, pays £300 a year, fees are normally £12k. I agree that it will be a minority, but the preconception that ALL kids at private schools are rich is wrong. Many schools are cutting back on their scholarship awards and putting more money into giving generous bursaries.

not always true seeker. Poor but clued up and determined parents can get their children into private schools on scholarships and bursaries. Schools like Christ's Hospital make a point of taking mainly children from less well off backgrounds and (possibly bizarrely, given it's rep) I think Eton has one of the highest numbers of free places.

Obviously you're right that the vast majority of private school children are from at least averagely well off homes but it would unfair to say you will NEVER find them there. One of my friends at uni came from a public school and lived on a council estate in Peckham. I don't think he especially enjoyed the public school experience but he had definitely had it!

don't think I meant preconception, soz been up way to long reading this darn thread :)

and of course the other type of 'poor kids' in state schools are sometimes the teacher's own kids! I get 95% off the fees.

ugh, that should read private not state of course!

People always say that. It's absolute crap. There are no poor children in private schools - unless they were put there for a reality television show. There might be a few token less well off children - but properly poor - like the children at my ds's school whose family genuinley can't afford the 2 quid for sswimming? Nope.

At the moment state but if I could afford it definately I would love to DCs to go private

seeker, I was a poor child in a private school.

and I mean properly poor - not having enough to eat, not even having anywhere to live (we were homeless and in council emergency/temp accommodation for 4 years while I was at my leafy green private school)

it can, and does happen.

"they stay behind when the other children go to sports lessons on wednesdays that you have to pay extra for as they cant afford it and its not included (its £3 a week),"

Now THAT must be fun for them. How kind of the school to give them a "full bursary" but make sure they can't fully participate.

Do they not feel left out when the school runs skiing trips etc? (Don't tell me they don't do trips-my DSs went to Russia, French exchanges, skiing in Canada, adventure weeks, day trips to France etc etc from their comprehensive) I should think that it is very hard to watch the lifestyle and be left out all the time. I couldn't have afforded trips on top of fees, as it was we tried to let them go on anything they could. DS won a full bursary, from the local public school, on an outward bound course for a week, but he had to do a lot of work for it +interview and there was stiff competition.The rest we had to pay for.

they're 'dirt' poor.... really poor and hungry, and the staff buy them extra food..... and PE isn't included in the fees..... and worst of all, YOU, another parent, KNOW about this!

SOunds like a sodding awful school, to be honest.

I would be a bit shocked that other parents knew which DCs were on full bursaries-why would they be told? I don't think that schools should be discussing the backgrounds of any of the pupils.

Yes, they probably do feel left out. But the point is the parents chose that education for the children, it isn't the school's fault (they are required by law (I think by law?) to provide financial assistance to low income families), no parent is required to take it up.

The examples given were to counter the false statement that there are NO poor children in private schools. It has just been proved that there are. Instead os an acknowledgement of 'oh ok, sorry, didn't know that', people have defensively switched to a different attack without acknowledging that they were wrong (well seeker anyway, nobody else said poor kids in private didn't exist).

I agree other parents shouldn't know but I doubt that they could know unless the recipients have talked about it themselves tbh. The school wouldn't just reveal it.

I also think the school could afford the extra £3 a week to allow the child to do sport! Sport is required in schools by law too, it shouldn't be an 'extra' in the first place!

Trips abroad - no, I doubt that they feel left out. The trip abroad are a luxury that a huge percentage of the parents can't afford after school fees and are (in my school anyway) just added extras in the school holidays that a small number of children participate in.