to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

State. By choice.

Work in a state school too. By choice.

if it's praiseworthy to work in one "by choice" you must understand why people don't want to make that choice

otherwise what's so great about working in one "by choice"

you say it like it's some kind of sacrifice

Just coming back to this thread as I've been thinking on it and reading some of the comments..

I think I must be quite outside the mumsnet demographic as I was state educated at a poorly-rated comprehensive school and a large sixth form college, and I really enjoyed school. Sure there were children in my form who got into trouble with the police, 3 girls had babies before we took our GCSEs (!), but this was nothing to do with the school, this was the environment those children lived in outside of school. On the other hand two of us got straight As at GCSE and A Level and went on to Oxford (although my friend moved to Manchester in the first year as she didn't like it there). I think the home environment and the expectations and guidance of parents is a massive factor. Peer group is important of course but it'd be ridiculous to write off every child in a 'poor' state school as a bad influence, and to presume that your child cannot get on with people from all backgrounds.

I guess I know a fair few privately educated people nowadays but would be hard pushed to say which people are, it's not something anyone ever talks about in the real world, or my real world anyway, I've done a research PhD, worked in universities and am currently a stay-at-home-mum.

Not sure what my overall point is but I definitely don't think anyone should feel they are failing their children by not sending them to private school. Just have high expectations for your children, and instill in them a sense of self-confidence. They can achieve and should never feel inferior.

3 private, but we don't live in the UK. Very mediocre state schools and unaffordable private (did it for a couple of years in primary but couldn't afford it for secondary) was a big part of our decision to leave England.

State is the default option, isn't it? Most people have no choice at all in the matter, no matter what they would like to do. I have a choice, and that is how I exercise it. Not sure where the "sacrifice" bit comes in. As for "praiseworthy" - well, I think it's the right choice of course, but I'm not looking for anyone else's approval.

There's definitely a lot of reverse snobbery about, not just on this thread.
Anyone who is considering sending their kids to a private school because they think it may "help" chances of employment may be sadly disappointed. Even Oxbridge aren't allowed to have too many attending and so they are actually at a disadvantage - even though they have the same or better grades, if the max of "privileged" students has been reached then they will miss out.

I was privately schooled from 6 (boarder as my family was a mess and there wasn't much choice or other option - grandparents had to pay for it, so not the typical scenario) and I can honestly say that it has helped me get one job (everyone went to a private or all girls grammar who worked there - I was very ) but in EVERY other place I have worked people have commented on it. Be it the accent, the fact they assume you are a snob, lifestyle choices they assume you have, things they can talk to you about - you name it; a fair percentage of state schooled people, the majority, will alienate or assume a lot of things before actually getting to know you, even if it is just because of the usually inevitable accent. I'm glad to say I always make friends and usually fairly quickly, but don't be under the allusion you are making things easier for children in the workplace by making that choice.

Think it is hard not to bring our own baggage about our own education to our decisions about our kids' education. To me it feels like a massive, scary responsibility.

re: sacrifice - because you made a point of saying "by choice" as if it's not the obvious choice, because that wouldn't need pointing out

so that implies you think there's something lacking in state schools but you chose one anyway

one of the great bonuses of private schools over state at primary level is they don't have to follow the NC and quite often they don't indeed follow the NC

that's a choice I would have been happy to make at the time but couldn't

i mean the very fact that state is the default option but you made the point of saying "by choice" - I don't know, maybe you think state schools are better?

maybe you do

I don't like the way people talk as if state schools are failing (some) because private schools exist

that's not true: if state schools are failing there is something wrong with the school

if the teachers, local education authority, governors and parents can't improve the school, what hope do a couple of extra children from the local private have? what are they supposed to do to raise standards?

I said by choice to show that it was a choice, rather than the default option. Any more than that is your own (erroneous) extrapolation.

Private education is always a choice, state education isn't.

Sorry Basingstoke, who was meant to look after me at State school? House me, feed me, etc? My grandparents had no choice but to pay for me to go unless I was to be fostered. Admittedly this isn't the norm, but some people really don't feel there is a choice. They may work abroad and have to move from country to country for example. It's not always because they have money coming out of their ears.

"Private education is always a choice, state education isn't".

Not sure I agree with this.

State education is a choice: Parents can choose private, home education or state schooling. They can get a group of children together and get a private tutor, or they can send them to religious institutions. Hey, they can even move abroad and skip schooling altogether! There is no legal obligation to send your child to school - only to educate your child. So, yes state school is a choice - there are other options available!

However, sometimes there may be forced choices - ie, we can't choose some of the options available to us: parents may have to work, so home education is not a realistic option and so on... but equally, private school may also be a 'forced choice'. For example, I know of one adult who as a teenager, was so out of control, he was sent to private school by the local authority. It was that or he would have been taken into care. He didn't have much of a choice. Other examples may be where parents have to work abroad / move around a lot / not have a homelife to be able to support a child at home so that they too have the 'forced choice' of having to choose private because for them too, it is the only viable option for them.

Just because it is the default option, doesn't stop it being a choice!

so why do you point out that it's "by choice"? why did you do that? what are you trying to say?

simply that you chose it? if so, what's the point, unless there's some reason why you shouldn't have

i mean, did you choose it because you think it's better?

why is it the "right" thing to do? for your child? for your country? why did you make that choice?

Research has shown that children who go to State school for ideological reasons (eg. parents strongly held socialist beliefs etc.), do just as well as similar children privately educated.

BTW some children do come out of private schools (and super selective Grammars) and go to non-Russell group unis, or even become beauticians. And of course some State school pupils go to Oxford.

It should be about doing what is best for your child and your family. And lots of people cannot afford private, even if they wanted (well at the eye watering fees charged local to me).

Private

yes, some this, some that, but you know

I think there should be more than cries of "it's not fair"

you can't make everyone have the same without profound restrictions and you'd end up in a bit of a mess then

best thing would be if state schools were fabulous everywhere instead of just in some areas

but you can't blame private schools for their non-fabulousness

If you're sending your child to private school because you think it will give them some sort of social cachet or advantage in the job market you had better choose the school very carefully. You haven't heard snobbery until you have heard an Old Etonian talking about someone from a minor public school!

Yep. I was discussing the private/state divide with someone involved in the admissions process in Oxbridge (obviously not saying which of the two unis or which college ) and he made the point that plenty of good state schools get more kids into elite universities than second string private ones. He was very dismissive about the latter, basically saying they were a waste of parents' money. Apparently its not unusual to get heads of second string private schools ringing up moaning about how their students can't get into Oxbridge any more and are victins of PC pro-state school discrimination, when actually their students just aren't good enough academically.

thanks for the warning

I know a number of old Etonians, one of them married to an ex comprehensive pupil

is that the sum total of what you have against private schools seeker? it seems more like a chip on a shoulder than a cogent argument

I, too, know several old Etonians and they are, without exception, charming! Much nicer people than some I know who went to the minor public schools!

No, I have a lot of reasons, both practical, philosophical, political and emotional to be opposed to private education. I was just contributing to tha discussion about the advantages private education gives people in later life.

Glad you know lots of old Etonians. You must be very proud!

Private - DD bagpacks in Tescos to help with the fees

"I, too, know several old Etonians and they are, without exception, charming! Much nicer people than some I know who went to the minor public schools!"

Thank you, Mrs Bennett!