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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

in not wanting DD to stay overnight with her dad

55 replies

LifeIsButtercream · 20/05/2011 16:46

DD is 2, ex-h lives 350miles away, it's a 6hr car journey minimum, each way.

Ex sees DD when he likes (I've made it clear to him he can have access whenever he likes, and we make accommodation arrangements for him, which he doesnt have to pay for), I try and do whatever I can to facilitate his access.

Ex has decided that he wants DD to stay with him, not regularly, just 'whenever he decided', and only for 2-3 nights at a time because he is 'busy'.

Now, when DD is older, school age, and she is able to express a wish to stay with her dad, and mature enough to understand etc I'd love for her to go and spend a week in the school hols, for example, staying with him. But at 2yrs old, it just feels inappropriate - she wouldn't understand why she was there, she would be away from home and everything that feels familiar to her, and it would mean over 12hrs in a car (there and back) for just a few nights, it just feels like too much upheaval for an only-just-2yr old.

He doesn't even have anywhere for her to sleep, he lives with his parents and there is no spare space - he says she would sleep in their travel cot - but I know she has outgrown the travel cot, its the same as our old one and she is too tall for it.

Ex says this is all rubbish, "of course she wants to stay with me, she's mine", and I would be permitted to stay in a nearby hotel if I wanted (I would have to pay and make my own travel arrangements), and argues that I am taking DD on holiday in the summer, and it's 'exactly the same' - it's not, we're not going to be travelling for more than 3hrs tops, and she will have her own toddler bed in her own room while we're away, and more importantly she will be with people she is familiar with and her routine will be maintained.

AIBU in not wanting this for her at this age?

OP posts:

sleepingsowell · 20/05/2011 18:01

I can see why you would feel reluctant (and it's a bit naughty of him not to be tied down to a regular arrangement) but it is great for your DD that she gets used to staying with her dad and grandparents.

You're doing a lovely thing for her if you allow her to have a full relationship with them all even though it's a bit scary at the mo.

I would pay to stay nearby if it was me just for peace of mind to be near when she's so little and while you get used to the idea.

But I do think it's a good idea. DOn't worry too much about the travel cot thing, it won't harm her and they will very soon SEE if they need something bigger. Don't let it put you off it's not that big an issue.

frantic51 · 20/05/2011 18:07

She has a right to be with her dad and he has a right to be with her so, on principle, YABU. However, he really does need to organise a place for her that is suitable. Sleeping on a sofabed in a sitting room (which is, presumably, put away each day) himself and having nothing better than a too small travel cot to offer her is not on imo. It must be a pretty small house if there is no spare room or it must be pretty full. Where is he proposing she sleeps in this travel cot? In the sitting room? Where, then, is everyone going to sit in the evening?

Totally with gillybean on making sure the house is completely toddlerproof before she visits too. It is a long journey for a small child for only a couple of nights, couldn't he have her for a week at a time? Say, one week in four? I think your ex hasn't quite thought the logistics through.

thatgirlsevil · 20/05/2011 18:07

igggi

Why are you so surprised at how 'accommodating' people are being to the ex?

He's the girls Father...and by the sounds of things he's making every effort to maintain a relationship with DD despite the obstacles OP seems to be putting in front of him.

He wants to spend 12 hours on a motorway and it seems OP's principal reaction is one of contempt... ("don't get me started on that one")

I feel sorry for the man...he just wants to know and love his DD and he has every right to that.

HappyMummyOfOne · 20/05/2011 18:11

YABVU, she's not your property and he has equal rights as a parent.

You moved, regardless of circumstances, and now dont think he should have overnight contact - its not about you.

Al1son · 20/05/2011 18:12

OP Like other posters I can see why you don't feel comfortable with this but it's part and parcel of living apart from her dad. He has a right to take her overnight whether you like it or not so I think you need to try and find a way to work together to make it the best it can be.

If she is too big for the travel cot he could use the cushioned base on the floor for her to sleep on as she'll have more room for movement and it won't matter if her feet hang over the edge. You could get her a little sleeping bag to use at home a few times before she goes to get used to it and send her own pillow and lots of familiar toys with her.

I agree with those who have said an ad-hoc arrangement isn't good. The first time will be hard for both of you but if there is a regular pattern of contact she will begin to settle into it and you will get used to her going. It wouldn't really be fair to leave long gaps in between so that she never felt settled there. I don't think YWBU if you agree on condition he makes a regular commitment so it becomes routine.

I really feel for you because I think I'd have been beside myself if I'd had to send mine so far away for three nights when they were so little. However you need to put your own feelings to one side, remember that she's with someone she loves and who loves her. You've got a lot of years of this negotiating ahead of you so try to make it a positive experience for everyone.

I hope you can find a good compromise.

frantic51 · 20/05/2011 18:15

Also, forgot to say, that the idea of driving 700 miles (12hrs+) in one day is just ridiculously irresponsible. Lorry drivers are not allowed to drive more than 10 in one day and they're not doing it with a, possibly fractious, toddler on board!

CordeliaCatkin · 20/05/2011 18:19

That's great advice Gillybean.

OP, two is really little and I would have hated my kids to be away from me at that age - but split families often have to do things differently and in a less-than-ideal way (I am a stepmother so I know).

Your ex does have a right to have his child to stay with him so I would focus on making the transition as simple as possible for your dd. Doing overnight stays in a hotel sounds like a great start and will help her get used to spending time with her dad without you there. No way should your ex just dictate when he gets your dd though - access should be properly discussed and agreed between the two of you.

BooyHoo · 20/05/2011 18:28

why cant the little girl share the sofabed with her dad? my EXP has stayed over occasionally on an airbed in the boys' room and both boys choose to sleep in it with him leaving their own beds empty. they like the novelty of it.

fluffygal · 20/05/2011 18:35

Boohoo- agreed. My ex had my 4 and 5 year old in his bed 3 nights a week for 2 years (he got readybeds but they kept bursting). He now has 2 foldaway beds which fit under his bed. He shares a flat with his brother and his bro's girlfriend so kids still sleep in his room.

nenevomito · 20/05/2011 18:46

YABU - its not unreasonable for him to want his daughter overnight with him where he lives. If she gets the added bonus of spending some time with her grandparents as well then all the better. If there is a loving environment then children should have access to all of their family.

Of course it will be hard seeing her go, but I'm with her dad on this one.

Sassybeast · 20/05/2011 18:57

OP - no it doesn't make you any more or less unreasonable but it does sort of weight things a little towards you having to make some concessions about letting her stay over. Family break down is awful and heart breaking but this little girl is lucky in that she has a daddy who does want to see her. The difficult thing is making him understand that for her sake, contact needs to be consistent and planned. Of course she's still a baby but I would try and find the strength to go and stay in a hotel for a weekend while she stays with him. Then when he sees you compromising a little, you ahve the power to ask for some compromise on his part and work on a fixed schedule for contact?

frantic51 · 20/05/2011 19:04

I would say that the lo can't sleep on the sofabed with her dad purely because of where it is, in the family sitting room. If the family don't need to use it as a sitting room then fine and dandy. Also, at 2 mine were still having a post-lunch nap. Is this little one still napping in the daytime? Is there room for her to do this at her gp's? I agree that it is great that she should spend time with her gps as well, a real bonus, but not if there is nowhere for her to sleep at her normal sleep times, undisturbed.

TBH I can't help wondering how these parents ended up quite so far away from one another when they split. Like it or not, it does make parental contact more complicated when the DC is so very little.

BooyHoo · 20/05/2011 19:10

frantic my EXP lives in different parts of the UK (england and scotland) at various times during the year. i live in northern ireland. sometimes it isn't always possible to move 5 minutes up the road when you split up.

frantic51 · 20/05/2011 19:27

Oh true, Boo, very true. But surely when a child is still so very young it does make life more complicated? I would have thought that splitting up with a child so young, a couple would make every effort to stay within, say, a couple of hours travelling distance if at all possible?

How old are your DC? Do they go to their father less often but for longer because of the travelling? How did/does this work when they are very small or when they are at school?

hairylights · 20/05/2011 19:31

Yabu!!

BooyHoo · 20/05/2011 19:39

ds1 is almost 6 and ds2 is 2 at the end of may. EXP is in the forces so it isn't possible for them to stay with him, although i would have no objection to him taking them over there if he does buy a home or get a fixed residence. at the minute he spends his leave with his parents who live about 10 minutes from me so he tries as much as possible to arrange his leave around ds1's school holidays and he will take the boys there. he has never asked for them to stay over. i think because it isn't really his home and also, he still likes to have the single life and go out with his mates when he is home so having the dcs overnight would interfere with that. still if he asks i have no objections.

mymummyisasquarehead · 20/05/2011 19:46

Yabu!

balia · 20/05/2011 20:16

Courts try to uphold a child's right to have a relationship with both parents, sustained by meaningful contact. Given this Dad has to travel so far to see the child, I'm sure the courts would give him a little leeway. Not to mention if they don't travel, the child misses out on the relationship with her grandparents as well.

What worries me most is this idea that overnight contact will happen when the child is old enough to "express a wish to stay with her dad" - children shouldn't be put in the position of having to tell a hostile parent that they wish to spend time with another parent. How can the child know whether she wants to stay with Dad if she's never done it? It is an adult responsibility to sort out contact arrangements and shouldn't be avoided by shifting responsibility onto a vulnerable child.

Was he happy about you moving so far away?

frantic51 · 20/05/2011 20:48

Boo, so your Ex never actually has the DC overnight because his parents house isn't really his home? He sounds in much the same position as OP's ex then with the advantage of having parents 10 minutes away from you. So, your young DC don't ever travel for hours to stay in an unfamiliar place where they do not have proper sleeping facilities and which isn't toddler-proof?

I am beginning to have more sympathy with the OP the more I think about this, except for wondering why on earth she moved so far away from her DD's father in the first place! Given the distance away and his, far from satisfactory, living arrangements I would be a bit I wonder why he can't take the lo overnight to wherever the OP makes accommodation arrangements for him when he visits?

secretskillrelationships · 20/05/2011 20:48

I think there are several issues here. I sense that the fact that he doesn't stick to any regular arrangement makes you feel that it's on his terms and you just have to fit in which is very frustrating when you are the one doing the bulk of everything. You are being incredibly flexible to allow him to continue to act like this and yet still organise accommodation etc for him.

I wonder whether you feel that he is pushing for overnight stays with him to get at you rather than because he wants to spend more time with his DD?

I'm interested that most replies have focussed spending time with her dad. Personally, I can't imagine spending 24 hours driving out of 3-4 days every 2 to 3 weeks. I would hate it. And, as a parent, I simply can't imagine thinking that this was in my DCs best interests. If I was caught up in this situation, I would be thinking as creatively as possible to get round it.

I think you need to get some routine going and feel confident that he is committed to your DD and not trying to yank your chain and then look at building to overnight, initially locally to you. This will also give him time to build trust with you (which I think is important) and also to organise accommodation for himself and DD.

worraliberty · 20/05/2011 20:58

Personally, I can't imagine spending 24 hours driving out of 3-4 days every 2 to 3 weeks. I would hate it. And, as a parent, I simply can't imagine thinking that this was in my DCs best interests

Yes well needs must if someone takes your child and moves that far away. I don't know about you, but if someone took my child away I would move heaven and earth for contact.

Why should he have to organise accommodation for himself and his own child? He lives with the child's grandparents who will no doubt want to spend time with their DGC too.

allnewtaketwo · 20/05/2011 21:09

Without wanting to make guesses at anyone's circumstances here, but - there are a few people looking down their noses at the fact that the child's father is currently sleeping on a sofabed in his parents' house rather than having separate accomodation to suit the child.

Would like to point out that in a hell of a lot of divorce cases, the father effectively ends up without a roof over his head (unless amenable parents help out) because he either has to leave the marital home or hand the proceeds over to the ex, and then financially sustain the family. This, very very frequently, leaves the father unable to financially afford to get something else sorted. Obviously none of us know the full details, here, but please, less of the high horse attitudes

frantic51 · 20/05/2011 21:20

allnew, sorry if you think I am "looking down my nose", I'm not, honestly. Though I don't know how anyone lands in a position of not having a roof over their head if they are in work because it has been my experience that no father has to hand over more than he can afford after funding his own living expenses.

I am simply saying that, whatever the circumstances of this unfortunate situation arising, taking a child of this age on such a long journey to stay for such a short time in such inadequate accommodation is not, in my opinion, in the child's best interests if alternative arrangements can be made for the father to have overnight visiting with her closer to where she lives. It's the time she has with her father and the minimising of disruption to her normal routine in order to facilitate this time which I would have thought was the most important thing for her at the age she is.

allnewtaketwo · 20/05/2011 21:29

But frantic, in this case, the mother moved the child 6 hrs away from the father. No we don't know why, but it's a fact nonetheless. If the OP had honestly only had the child's disruption in mind then putting 6 hrs between the child and its father was a pretty big decision (for someone worrying now about the travelling disruption )

"I don't know how anyone lands in a position of not having a roof over their head if they are in work because it has been my experience that no father has to hand over more than he can afford after funding his own living expenses" - well I don. My DH was left with tens of thousands of debts and no equity whatsoever in his house because his ex got it all and he literally was left with nothing. He was one of those who ended up 'on a sofabed in his parents' house', and would never have been able to afford anything else for years if they hadn't taken him in.

worraliberty · 20/05/2011 21:29

How much money do you think this man has? Petrol is already going to cost a small fortune for a return trip and now he's supposed to find more for accomodation?

For goodness sake, as long as he sorts out a little fold up bed his child should be able to visit him and her GPs overnight in the GPs own home.

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