To tell DS either eat what is here or go hungry?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Last week sweetcorn was great this week he hates it
yesterday he wanted Pizza, today I have been lazy accomadating and ordered him a pizza for dinner.

Ham, cheese mushroom and sweetorn.

He is refusing point blank to eat it. AIBU to tell him thats all there is and he either eats it or goes hungry?

He is 12 and yes he has AS but I refuse to pander to his every whim.

We only ever cook one dinner, I will ask DC to try it and if they don't like it OK. If I am not sure or if I know they don't like it I make sure they can eat some of it, e.g. don't mix stir fry with the rice and put some butter on their rice. Bread and butter at a push. And no fancy desserts, just fruit.

I find getting them to try things they don't like makes them come round eventually. Nothing I cook looks or tastes the same twice anyway so its worth trying it again.

I always look forward to dh coming home and giving me a break.
That's totally normal and not wrong at all.

All you can do is your best, isn't it. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Have you had a proper break recently? I am having my first weekend away from dc and dh for 5 years. I cannot wait.

Wow, I have never had a break from DS's oh tell a lie I went away overnight once when DS1 was 6. I left home at 2pm on the Saturday and was back by 12pm the following day.

I actually don't think I could leave DS2 overnight - DS1 would be fine with DP but DS2 wouldn't he is a mummys boy - my doing I know.

I am a solver, I solve everyones problems, they all come to me for answers and solutions and I always find them for others.

Maybe this is the problem I am looking for a solution and there isn't one is there?

I am tired, tired of meetings at school, tired of the school wanting me to solve the problems DS is having in school. Tired of trying to work everything out and figure out where I went wrong, tired of trying to make sure I do everything right with DS2 so I have no problems. I am tired of stressing to make sure DS2 is in bed early when I know DS1 will only wake him up. I am tired of the never ending washing pile, I am tired of feeling like I am fighting a losing battle with DS1, its almost (and this has been said by many others) as if he is never happy unless he is playing the victim. I am tired of the fact he behaves at my mums and doesn't kick off in the same way as he does at home, I am tired of being doubted because of this.

I am tired of defending him when he turns on me, like last week when he punched me in the face, I didn't tell anyone. Instead I went out when DP got here got very drunk and cried.

I am tired of feeling like I AM A FAILURE and that I could have prevented all of this.

I am tired of so much and I feel overwhelmed by so much. I have no fight in me anymore, I just want to sleep. I cannot go to bed at a decent time as he is still awake, I am tired of being the tough cookie who holds everything together. I am not so tough and sometimes I come on here with the plan to be honest about how I feel and instead end up being defensive. when all i really want is to shout I need help.

I am failing at this or at least I feel I am and my home is suffering because I am so tired through a lack of sleep that I have no energy to do anything.

The last 2 days I have rewashed and dried every item of clothing in my home just so I can iron it as it is the only way I can destress.

Yes I am pathetic.

You are not failing.

But your kids and your dh need to understand that you also have needs and wants and interests. This is not being selfish, it's teaching your children - both children - to respect other people. It's a basic lesson and you learn it at home or not at all. Easy for me to say, and maybe you're in no place to do it now, but rules that apply to everyone might help. Sometimes you have to ratchet up the consequences until children comply. I found helpful advice was to work on one issue at once, and for you that sounds like sleep. So decide what you want ds1 to do - be in bed, or in his room, from a certain time in the evening and stay there, quietly, not disturbing anyone (outline exceptions: illness, fire, needing the loo...) until a certain time in the morning. Carrot if he does, stick if he doesn't (not literally, obviously), and keep going until you prevail. Which, eventually, if you make the rewards and consequences big enough, you will.

And meanwhile, go away for a weekend. Everyone will survive, even if they don't like it much. Your ds2 isn't too young to learn that Mummy sometimes has other things to do and, crucially, will always come back. He won't learn to trust your return if he never experiences your absence - again, it's about learning that other people exist and that other people's existence isn't threatening.

Ok.

Does your DS1 have problems sleeping? As this is almost endemic amongst older kids with ASD. You can talk to his paed about this.

I would also suggest that you contact autism outreach.

You need to be very understanding but at the same time, very strict and consistant. More consistant that you would ever believe yourself to have to be.

Does he have a visual chart of his expectations>? Ds1 doesn't use these because (he has ADHD as well) he forgets to look at them but my friend has a nin e year old with ASD and she finds them invaluable. Don't be put off by his age - comprehension of expectations often lags many years behind with kids with ASD. Try it and see if it works - have a list of realistically expected behaviors - very precise ones - and consequences if these are not adhered to, but you must be ruthless, almost heartless, in applying these consequences.

With the playing the victim - don't engage with it. Adjust his reality once. If he says "You pushed me over and dragged me around the room!" and the reality was that you took his hand and he did jelly legs on you and refused to get up, inform him of the reality of this once, then don't engage again on that subject. Winding you up is fun, rememer. Your face goes a funny colour, and your voice changes pitch - cool! Don't give him that positive feedback.

And for god's sake, get some time out or you're going to lose the plot. your Ds2 will have to learn that mummy is a real person too.

Everything Colditz says. It's that combination of immoveable strictness and deep sympathy you need to find, and once we found it, everything got very much easier. We're not naturally parents who like being the police, and it was hard to learn because our instinctive approach is much fuzzier, but all that How-To-Talk stuff was just making ds1 anxious and confused and therefore really really hard to live with. Running things like Mussolini (or maybe like Penelope Leach pretending to be Mussolini) made everyone much much happier. And then the other part of the job is to help him every step of the way while he learns - painfully and sometimes loudly - to deal with the fact that there are rules and there are other people.

But take a break first.

Colditz, MrsPoyser these are the things I have been doing over the last few months.

Bed at 8 to be settling at 9 - if I leave him up any later he won't go to his room at all.
Up at 7 for shower, breakfast uniform and off to school
Home from school at 4 - 5 depending if he stays and does his homework.

Dinner at 6

Then we will sit and watch a film although more often than not he will exit to his bedroom.

Bedroom at 8 to settle for sleep.

He does also have a chore list which is

Load/unload the dishwasher

Put his washing in his drawers

Vacumn living room and his bedroom floor twice a week.

None of this has worked. He either goes to his room straight from school or refuses to go until late. If I take his DS away he screams blue murder. the same with anything else he has tbh.

He won't comply to even the simplest of rules.

Let him scream. Just because he is screaming doesn't mean the rule isn't being complied with - it is, because you are forcing compliance. It's still compliance. he can either waste his breathe screaming for his own way or, if you keep this up without ever ever ever negotiating, he will learn that it is non negotiable.

Screaming in this house may only be done in the bedroom. I take the Ds away, ds1 screams (rarely now) as a result, and he is taken (and sometimes, very carefully and extremely gently, dragged or carried) to his bedroom where he may scream as much as he likes. His Ds will be returned when his time out is over, when he calms down or when his room is put back into order after he's trashed it, whatever comes last. I will hold the bedrrom door shut if he either attacks me through the door or bangs it so hard he's risking it or himself.

I'm going to say something very depressing now.

Your life is probably never going to be as easy as it would be if your son didn't have AS, so you would be much happier if you let go of the idea (if you have it) that there is a magic formula that produces jolly, reasonable, sociable AS children. There isn't, you're both stuck with it. Your aim is not to make the AS go away, it is to make him as livable as possible. It's going to take a long time and will be stressful for both of you.

Gosh, I've just realised I'm a monster... If DS is playing up, I'm merciless: "This is your lunch, are you sure you are not having it? OK, we'll put it in the microwave for dinnertime, I'm sure you'll be hungry then." "This is your dinner, are you sure you are not having it? OK, we'll save it for tomorrow's breakfast, I'm sure you'll be very hungry then!".

Works for us .

Mind you, if he genuinely doesn't like something AFTER having tried it, I don't press it and praise him for having tried. Playing silly buggers, on the other hand, nope!

You are not pathetic - you have a child with special needs and it's utterly draining. They can just suck the life out of you.

I have a son with ADHD as well as attachment disorder. He's 7 now and his behaviour is worsening - or certainly becoming harder to manage as he becomes bigger, stronger and more physical.

School here is a huge problem too - at the moment he's in a PRU as mainstream aren't able to cope with him. What help does your son get in school? When school goes pear shaped then it affects EVERYTHING.

Everything can become a battle - food, bedtimes, going to school and there's only so much you can cope with at one time. It's bloody hard.

We're having roast chicken tonight. I can guarantee you that my son will refuse to eat it. I can guarantee that he will have a strop and stalk out of the room probably slamming the door after him. Well, that's his choice - just as it's my choice to cook chicken. If he doesn't like it then he can go without.

Our therapist has told us to concentrate on one or two battles at once - for us that's getting him to school and to bed. Food - well, I can't really be bothered to argue over food. He eats it or he doesn't. His choice.

I would like to ask a question out of genuine interest. I don't have AS or SN children and have no experience of this whatsoever.

I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) that AS and SN diagnosis has been prevalent in the last 30-50 years. How was it diagnosed prior to that and how did families manage behaviour outside the norm?

What has sparked the question is that I was watching a kids' programme about evacuees during the war and I wondered how children with AS/SN would have coped - or would they not have been sent away?

There seems to be many more AS/SN children about but perhaps that's all down to diagnosis (or not).

Sorry if this is a hijack, just interested. :)

Colditz, I think I love you. You put it to me straight and it makes so much sense. I am doing all the right things except I need to stop feeling guilty and blaming myself for making things worse when he is screaming. It is not my fault if he misbehaves and as a result has something removed.

Wales, You did make me laugh with the

Food - well, I can't really be bothered to argue over food. He eats it or he doesn't. His choice
comment.
Its so true. I am feeling much more upbeat today - and its down to MN making me see sense again

Lying back then children were put into institutes or classed as thick. They were starved of education and sent to work from a young age.

TheLadyEvenstar... Really? That's awful. :(

isnt it lucky that all the little darlings dont demand that they only eat fillet steaks tenderised on the thighs of the Dalai Llama, what on earth would you do then if you are too scared to say no!

Evenstar - try this in the SN topic, it avoids the twatty comments.

Well, LadyEvenStar - I'm frankly amazed that he did actually eat some of his food. Mind you, it was after a mega tantrum during which he swore at his brother, belted his sister and kicked me so hard he made me hobble.

So, one all I think.

Next we have horror that is bedtime - at the moment he's charging around the garden and jumping on the trampoline. Hopefully he'll wear himself out.

Oh, and just to make life even better my old dog has become incontinent and piddled on the carpet - cream carpet.

Someone just shoot me now

Really feel for you Lady.
I have four with asd, two very high functioning. The eldest is now at university and will now eat almost anything, all veg etc. But that took years and years of trying, getting him to taste, not giving in when I knew he was just trying to control a situation just because he knew he could.
The other three are still little, and I allow some flexibility but do make sure not to cook seperate meals for each ot them. So today we had baked potatoes, salad. They got to choose from a range of toppings, and could pick from the salad what they wanted, as long as they ate some of it.
With the pizza, that is tricky. I would tell ds to pick off what he doesn't want from it,and he can choose one thing to have with it.
If I don't allow any flexibility at all, it really is a horrible night for everyone.

YANBU. Stick with it. We did.

Sorry for not being back earlier I had to do a complete restore on my laptop grrrrrrrrrrrrr

DS tried again tonight with the fuss over dinner - lamb chops, mash, peas and gravy. But I simply said "make your mind up eating or not and if not you will have it tomorrow"

He began the "victim" role again "You won't let me eat dinner" I simply corrected him once (Thanks Colditz) and left him to it.

Wales I feel for you especially regarding your dog. I have recently got a pup and although she is getting better she is a bit naughty and has accidents on my floors.

Nilby How did you do it ? persistance?

Andrew Thankyou. I did and tonight it worked without too much fuss.

Sticky Its not a case of being scared fgs it is more a case of not upsetting the apple cart, Unless you have experience of our lives then you really are not qualified to pass judgement.

You are being very unreasonable.

Shtiv, would you care to expand on that. Generally it is good to give an opinion of why someone is being unreasonable. Sure makes things easier.