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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think my friend is making her situation worse?

34 replies

SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 13:12

Went away for a week with friends who's DC have just turned 1 and 3.

Older DC seems to have reverted back to behaving like the younger one. He tries crawling, talks in baby talk and has the most monumental tantrums (like I have never witnessed before). When this happens he is given whatever he is having a tantrum about immediately and another child has it they snatch it away from them for their child. My friend still gives him baby bottles and a big bottle of juice to go to bed with. He wears a nappy if he wants a poo (very common I realise) but stands next to us whilst doing it (making us gag) rather than being taken to the bathroom to encourage him to relate doing a poo and the bathroom (I know someone has advised her this might be better, gently and kindly, as she experienced same with her child).

She never gets them to sit at the table to eat but makes one bowl of food and races around the house feeding each using one spoon.

Separately these all these don't seem so bad but I feel that they are not letting their older DC have an identity but treating him the same as the younger one and just encouraging his bad behaviour.

He is never made to say sorry (e.g. when he hits my DC). The whole time away both children cried and were miserable. They aren't really disciplined but then the parents finally get sick of all the whining and then threaten them and smack their bottoms/shout/send them to their room. Their reaction just seems to flip rather than giving warnings etc. (so overly nice and then overly horrible).

It was so awful that the other family we were with left early because they couldn't cope with their crying and misery. By the end of the holiday the mum said 'I'm ready to kill one of them'. I am worried about her as I think she is miserable and dreads looking after the kids when she isn't working but in some ways I felt she was making her own bed. I've probably missed some other examples but didn't want to make this too long.

I know I'm being judgemental but they don't seem to see quite how hideous they are making their children (other friends have stopped inviting them to events) or that they are making things harder for themselves in the long run.

Am I wrong to think they need a wake up call on their children's behaviour? Anyone know anyone like this and how was it fixed?

OP posts:
worraliberty · 16/05/2011 13:15

Starting school will probably help. They'll have clearer boundaries.

compo · 16/05/2011 13:15

I'd just put it down to experience and don't go in holiday with them again
don't give any advice unless it's asked for
you could offer to lend her a book on parenting if you dint think she'd take it the wrong way
tbh you sound a little too involved

HalfPastWine · 16/05/2011 13:16

Maybe you should put her name forward for the next series of Super Nanny and let Jo sort it out!

Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 13:18

Compo not involved just back from a ruined holiday and felt bad for my DC as they were constantly having things taken away from them.

I definitely did not offer any advice, didn't want them to feel criticized and rather letting off steam here!

OP posts:
reallytired · 16/05/2011 13:19

Do you have more than one child? How old are your children? Three year old boys can be very difficult.

Fate can play cruel tricks on people. Yes, I think you are being judgemental. You are being pathetic rather than sympathetic.

In the past health visitors used to give support to second time mums.

Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 13:27

Reallytired I don't think that is fair to say that I am being pathetic. Judgemental yes, but pathetic no. I had to put up with them passing comments about our children during the holiday yet bit my tongue about theirs as yes, I was somewhat concerned it would come out in a torrent.

I don't know what it's like to have her children, of course I don't, but some of her practices are odd (such as not giving them individual bowls to eat from).

OP posts:
reallytired · 16/05/2011 13:37

SenoritaViva, what are you doing that is CONSTRUCTIVE to help her?

I think that bitching about another mother is pretty pathetic.

Why don't you offer to baby sit one or both the children for an afternoon to give her a break?

I realise that you had a bad holiday. Maybe the internet is a way for you to let off steam. I went on holiday with my SIL when her children were the same age and my son was nine months about 8 years ago. It really did not work.

With hindsight both of us had quite rigid ideas on parenting. She was critical of how often I breastfed my son and I was unfairly critical of the fact that her three year old was completely incontinent, yet wore pants. She was making constant digs at how I was lazy being a stay at home mum.

I think that life is happier if we respect different parenting choices. Other people's children are never as wonderful as our own.

Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 13:43

Reallytired I am not doing anything to help because we live in different countries, so I'm afraid that's not going to help. Also because of this, I wanted to let off some steam here and continue our friendship. I can't help do much from afar sadly.

OP posts:
EldritchCleavage · 16/05/2011 13:46

Is some of how you feel pent-up resentment because of her comments about your children, and her behaviour? Comments about your children you are entitled to dispute/discourage/cxomplain about, however gently, if they are unfair.

If someone whipped a toy off my DS to give to a child who'd had a tantrum for it, I would deal with it there and then. It is no good letting these things happen then fuming later-that just undermines the friendship all the faster.

Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 13:47

But you are right about the different parenting styles, I think that's why I wanted to know (but probably wasn't clear in the beginning) whether people thought that she was contributing to her child's poor behaviour or not.

OP posts:
Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 13:51

EldritchC - you are probably right, I didn't enjoy them making comments about our DC. I did try to deal with them taking things away but they just didn't see it. I also asked their little boy to say sorry when he smacked another child but she told me to stop being so silly and he's 'only little'. I generally feel chatting to a child about what is OK and not, and if they are quite able to speak (which he is) that encouraging him to say sorry at 3 is not too young.

OP posts:
Pictish · 16/05/2011 13:55

I'm very much afraid that I am unable to nurture a friendship with those whose dc are unbearable to be around. At the same time, I'm not going to be the one to point out what methods they choose are wrong. No parent appreciates being told they're making a mess of it.

Personally I would find what you describe extremely frustrating to watch and be around...so my tactic would be to never go on holiday with them again....and avoid get togethers with the kids until they are older.

I have twice ditched mates because their kids were so fucking intolerable. Some of you will find that really uncharitable, but there you go. I'm not going to make my kids put up with being belted. It's also difficult to explain to little ones why they are not allowed to behave in a way that the gremlin kids are.

I'm shit with badly behaved children and their drippy parents. Bodyswerve!

Abelia · 16/05/2011 13:56

OP, don't know why you're getting a bit of a pasting here, your friend sounds like she has given up a bit tbh. and you've clearly had a rotten holiday because of her dc and her parenting.

in particular, wtf about not sitting the dc down at mealtimes, but walking round with a bowl of food and feeding them where they sit? that's really quite odd. also the dc sound miserable - very chaotic and no boundaries, but then suddenly being shouted at or smacked, no wonder they behave as they do.

can you find a time to call your friend one evening and say gently to her, that you thought she seemed to be drowning a bit wrt the children and managing them, she didn't seem very happy. Would she like to talk about it? then listen and see if you can make useful suggestions - eg boundaries, sitting down to eat, how to potty train the 3yo etc. Perhaps one suggestion at a time though!

tbh being away together would have been the best time to try and tackle this, and provide some practical support nad help, but I appreciate how hard it is to try and provide structure / discipline for other people's children if their parents are just standing there doing nowt.

cat64 · 16/05/2011 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

EldritchCleavage · 16/05/2011 14:02

Oh, I'm definitely with you on that one, Pictish.

OP, I hope I didn't sound critical, I certainly didn't mean to. I can quite see that you would have wanted to keep the peace and salvage something from the holiday.

My sister had a friend and her daughter to stay once, and it ended the friendship permanently. She just could not accept what she and her DC were expected to put up with from this little girl, while her mother sat about ignoring it and being drippy, or making snide remarks bout how well behaved (i.e. boring) my DN were.

And you can't really deal with it effectively if the other parent refuses to acknowledge there is any kind of problem.

Pictish · 16/05/2011 14:03

I remember a weekend camping trip with friends and their ds who was about a year older than ours. What an utter horror he was!!
He was demanding, cheeky, rude, disobedient, nasty to our lad and we were all expected to pander to him.
At one point the boy's father made our ds get off his own chair, and sit on a rock at breakfast instead, because their son wanted the chair and was throwing a tantrum over not having his own.
I did intervene then.

Their son ruined the trip for everyone. Never been away with them again. Fuck that.

notmyproblem · 16/05/2011 14:04

For FFS reallytired if you're that tired and cranky go back to bed. You sound positively hostile about this. If you can't judge a sitation about strangers on the internet without bringing your own personal biases into it, then stay off the thread, you're too sensitive to be helpful.

The OP posted asking for suggestions on how to gently help her friend through this. Of course some venting is going to happen here, she just got back from a week's holiday with them 24/7. The friend sounds a bit at wit's end and could need some help, especially if other families have noticed and are starting to avoid spending time with them due to not enjoying being around them.

OP, no suggestions from me I'm afraid as I haven't been in the situation but I think other responses to you have been overly harsh and unreasonable. You don't sound that judgy to me. Hope some more useful people chime in, though I suspect your best response is to do what those other families have and just limit your contact. Unless poeple want your help, you can't really help them.

beckibicker · 16/05/2011 14:05

send the mum a link to this thread

that should sort it

Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 14:06

Thank you Abelia, I suppose what I was looking for was that I wasn't being a total arse (at least by one person!!) for thinking these things on holiday. Half the problem is that actually this is DH's best mate and his brood. They live in a different country so I don't actually know her well enough and don't think I am the person to be offering support and advice, we like each other but not great friends IYSWIM.

I think it made me feel more cross because it impacted our kids plus DH's mate kept talking about his friends who's kids were badly behaved without boundaries and I was wondering how they could be blind that that was also them?

OP posts:
sleepingsowell · 16/05/2011 14:13

Am still feeling sick about the putting a nappy on a child for a poo and then letting him stand there and do it next to you Yes, of course she should have taken him to the loo for it or even just another room. I have no problem with a child needing a nappy at 3, but it is gross to stand them right next to people while delivering said poo................................

Also agree that her chasing them around the house trying to feed them from one bowl is madness.

To be honest though, unless you said something at the time (to try to help or give her your view) it's too late now and I think all you can do is chalk it down to experience, accept you have UTTERLY different parenting styles, and vow never to go on holiday with them again

I have a policy that precludes going on holiday with ANY friends no matter how close Grin

sleepingsowell · 16/05/2011 14:15

oh - meant to add that monumental tantrums for a 3 year old are WELL within the realms of normal

talking in baby talk and crawling like the little one, again v normal

However being given whatever you're screaming for even if it means snatching it from another child = non normal parenting!!!!!

Pictish · 16/05/2011 14:21

Agree with Sleeping.

Our 3 yr old ds is a bit of a tantrum chucker, but we deal with it sharpish, and never ever give in to his demands.

To take something from one child to placate the tantrum of of another is a actually just stupidity. That would irritate the bejesus out of me. If that's the tactic they're going to use to deal with tantrums, things are only going to get a whole lot worse for them....that kid is going to rule the roost!

As i said....bodyswerve!

Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 14:22

Sleepingsowell - agree on the tantrums. My DCs are no angels. He does tantrum till he passes out though, haven't come across that before.

More than the tantrums was that they were so miserable! I'm all for different parenting styles, whatever makes you and them happy but that was the point, she didn't seem happy and the children definitely weren't. It was rather sad really.

OP posts:
Original poster
SenoritaViva · 16/05/2011 14:23

Pictish - that's what I felt and wondered if I was being too judgemental (although obviously kept it to myself).

OP posts:
MumblingRagDoll · 16/05/2011 14:25

People get into awful habtits which seem reasonable to them....my friend for instance allows her 3 year old DS to eat entire packs of bicuits while at my house....he is already overweight. I say nothing....I make sure I have snacks available and that is what a good host does. I think all kinds....but I say nothing.