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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

TO AWAIT THE DETAILS of Camerons covenant. But 200 homeless ex soldiers within 2 miles of Cenotaph

29 replies

ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 10:41

A recent tv progamme did suggest there was 200 homeless ex soldiers within 2 miles of the Centotaph.

Even if its only half true, its a bloody disgrace.

People do, of course , join the forces voluntarily; some even just because they cant get a job (Not too happy about that aspect) Are you?

OP posts:
barbie007 · 16/05/2011 10:47

Not sure what you're unhappy about.....that they join the forces because they can't get a job?

GypsyMoth · 16/05/2011 10:48

there is help for ex servicemen. if they are homeless then they could approach the relevant associations

what is a disgrace Gabby?

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 11:04

the programme was a serious programme. A senior army officer sais the situation of homeless ex soldiers was a disgrace.

On this I would rather believe him than you Tiffany. Whats your angle? Do you have service connections are you a Coalition activist?

ON JOINING UP If you had a 17 year old, lass or lad...and they said "Mum, dad, I am sick of being jobless. Would you mind if I volunteered for the forces?"

I hope tiffany and co would be sensible enough to give it serious consideration....not just blurt out....its your choice

this sort of question comes up regularly on dads/mumsnet...as we realists call it

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 16/05/2011 11:10

i'm ex service family,previously HOMELESS Gabby

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 11:11

Come on Tiffany..I love your name but not you glibness. Why not save glib
posts for non-serious subjects?

After all, i have actually been in the services.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 16/05/2011 11:12

Haig Homes
SSAFA
Royal British Legion

those agencies are just off top of my head....there are more,and there is now a focus on single soldiers too.

meditrina · 16/05/2011 11:15

There are a number of organisations which assist ex Service personnel with many things, including housing. But as healthy single young people (who have recently had a peripatetic life and therefore no demonstrable ties to a particular area) have a bloody difficult time getting on any lists for social housing. Private rental and HB is of course an option - if they can find the necessary deposit, but that's not always easy either.

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 11:17

If that is a serious comment Tiffany....(and there are jokers on Mumsnet)

then you having been homeless will have sriously compassionate advice to offer Camerons Minister of defence. Because I tend to think Tory tears for service personnel are of the crocodile variety...

I am not too convinced by Lib-dem or labour ...but government is by definition a callous business in some areas

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 16/05/2011 11:24

when i was homeless (with 4 dependent dc) we were in a stepping stone home. for a year.

at that time i couldnt have cared less who the prime minister was...

why would i not seriously comment? i recently looked into transferring to Haig waiting list. i noticed a lot of new build and housing stock was now aimed at single ex service tenants. a good thing.

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 11:25

Its fair enough to point out the help organisations...But the army officer on the TV programme was more contrite than that on the subject. You point out the problems well, Meditrina.

Nothing is easy about housing for poorer people, these days.

Now can we have a less niggly debate on the subject. Namely of jobless youngsters choosing the services as a last resort.

Parents would have a view on that. Last time I saw it debated here parents were divided on the subject.. There are military families where sons follow dad. Pop millionaire James Blunt was one such.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 16/05/2011 11:27

2 of my children have shown an interest in a forces career.

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 11:40

TIFFANY....it is clear you have relevant experience on this subject.

In respiect of your children joining up...do you intend taking a neutral stance. ? It must be difficult for you.....I would find it so, but I am not in that position

I had 6 brothers conscripted in the war.. they all survived. But one was seriously damaged in a submarine rescue . (even the rescue craft was blasted)

OP posts:
Finallyspring · 16/05/2011 12:53

This is an interesting side to you Gabby. I didn't know you had been in the forces. When you say you had six brothers who were conscripted, do you mean into British Army in WW2 ?

Malificence · 16/05/2011 13:08

I think that people shouldn't be able to join the armed forces as children, which is what often happens, far too many go from being in dysfunctional families into the huge armed forces "family", they have a few years following routine, being told when to eat sleep and shit, not to mention the culture of extreme heavy drinking that is still rife amongst the forces today, as it has always been - then, when they come out after a few years with little resettlement help, it's little wonder they can't cope with civvy life.

I think that 21, i.e after University or some form of training, is a better age to join up, as it's much more about career options then, rather than joining up because there is nothing else to do.

I say that as an ex-RAF wife, DH joined up when he was 17, so he was a boy entrant, I think it's a disgrace that people can still join up this young and be sent to a war zone by the time they are 18.

aliceliddell · 16/05/2011 13:15

Don't really get why this doesn't apply to anyone in need of affordable housing, disability assistance etc. It's in the service of the country, but so is a nurse who damages her back lifting patients etc. Everyone in need should get these things, no matter why/how they need them.

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 15:39

I think 17 is a bit young for joining the military

When I was young parents could sign there kids up for 14 years (I hope that did not happen to James Blunt)

AliceLiddell I suppose soldiers are thought to be more in risk of death than other professions....(Hence the bodybags) I think the yanks hid the bodybags
in one conflict..but a picture was snatched. No hiding place these days.

Malificense....yours is an interesting post. I take the points you make so strongly. If I had a teenage son or daughter and they wanted to join up just because they couldnt get a civvy job; I would try and tyalk them out of it.

OP posts:
hairylights · 16/05/2011 15:47

It's an absolute disgrace that it's even possible to join up at 17. That is way, way to young.

I don't see why the military services should have a special
deal. People join up of their own volition. Yes, they do a dangerous job but so do lots of others.

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 15:56

Is the general feeling here that 17 is too young to join up ?(I hope so)

And if you are a parent who is into politics; and has opinions on our wars in the last 20 years...would you let that influence how you advised a son or even daughter on a services career?

OP posts:
Punkatheart · 16/05/2011 15:58

There is often a contract but you can 'buy yourself' out of the army - as happened to an old boyfriend of mine.

The true scandal really is that whatever anyone thinks of war and fighting there are a number of homeless people on the streets with military backgrounds. It actually is quite a large percentage and there are a lot with mental ill problems, which have been caused by trauma in war. They often do not adjust to civillian life, have little support. Support should be forthcoming and if a soldier leaves the army through traumatic circumstances - why is he not given appropriate support to start again?

Of course there are some people who might wish James Blunt sign up again. For at least 40 years. Just saying.

LtEveDallas · 16/05/2011 16:04

You can't 'buy yourself out' of the Army. The ability to do so was done away with a long time ago - only those who joined prior to 1992 retained the rights, and only until the current engagements changed again.

Original poster
ScousyFogarty · 16/05/2011 16:06

Punkaheart I tend to agree with you on the homeless ex-soldier aspect. The authorities would like to pretend it is all taken care of

OP posts:
Punkatheart · 16/05/2011 16:07

This was some time ago. Thanks for update - it did seem unfair that those who could afford it could buy themselves out.....

Birdsgottafly · 16/05/2011 16:14

Allice-there has been a no lift rule in care for a long while. You are trained how to move patients so the back damage does not happen anymore unless you are breaking guidelines and then it is your responsibility.

Tiffany-it is more difficult to get decent housing if you do not have any dependants.

More and more of the charities that provide housing, hostels b+b, set a criteria (for funding purposes) such as ex addicts so finding housing in your area where you have family support is sometimes impossible. You have to be entiltled to JSA or another benefit for HB to kick in so it is easy to quickly go into a dowmward spiral, especially when you are not used to negociating the system. My work brings me into contact with people who do not slot into a criteria for help and they are on the increase as budgets are cut.

Punkatheart · 16/05/2011 16:17

We are going to hear that 'budgets are cut' element a lot. I made a comment to a friend in an angry moment about wanting to sandpaper David Cameron's smug shiny face and she quipped back that she would prefer he go out to Afghanistan, where her husband is, to be desert-blasted good and proper.

LtEveDallas · 16/05/2011 16:18

Sorry, accidentally hit post!

I should point out (as always) that there are 3 Services, all of whom are on active duties. The homeless situation also affects ex Navy and RAF, not just Army. They do the same resettlement and have the same terms of service. So unfortunately have the same problems.

I'll use Army/soldiers however, just for ease of typing!

When soldiers join up they sign for a minimum of 4 years (it used to be 3, but changed in approx 2001). Unless they become a disciplinary or administrative burden then they cannot be 'sacked' so can have at least 4 years guaranteed employment.

They can be discharged for Disciplinary reasons (ie drug taking, Courts Martial) and they can be discharged for Administrative reasons (ie they are considered temperamentally unsuited, or their fitness drops well below acceptable standards).

They can also not have their contracts renewed. If this is the case they will get 12 months notice. If Discipline they can be gone in a matter of weeks.

I think you may find that some of the homeless ex service personnel will come under that banner - ie for Discipline reasons they were discharged, and at that point they realise they have nowhere to go. I've seen it happen, I've seen lads assume that they can go home to mum, only to find out that mum wont have "a fucking druggie" (actual quote) in the house. SOME of these guys may have bought it on themselves...