Bishop Gilpin parents - And you call yourselves Christians?? (MERTON SCHOOLS)

[NutellaWithEverything]

Name changed because I need to rant about my DS not having been offered a school place and don't want to be outed. I am in Wimbledon and my nearest school in Bishop Gilpin. My DS has not been accepted to start in Reception this September coming even though it takes us three minutes to get there. Yet, they take in children from the other side of Wimbledon even though they have to drive through town to get there. And why?? Because they go to the right churches. So last November there was a request from the Council to add another Reception class but parents voted against other children from their own community benefiting from attending a good school. They felt it would be in the detriment of their school's community feel!!!!! AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS IS SELFISH, SHORT-SIGHTED, UN-GODLY AND JUST PLAIN WRONG?????????????????

Kewcumber's spot on.

northernrock I think your situation is awful and I hope you find a suitable solution very soon.

I still wouldn't judge parents who go to church without being religious.

Thanks, me too.
Yep, as P Diddy says "Only God can judge"
Ha ha!

northernrock, I am completely and utterly boggled that there are some on this thread who apparently think that your situation is ok, or perhaps that although it is not ideal the best solution is for the state to build another school for you, rather than that they should give up their 'right' to faith-based schooling, even at the expense of the rest of us.

I know. Its really simple, what I wan't:

For my kid to go to our local primary.

Shouldn't be too stressful, right!?

The thing is though, Hester, given the choice, I would prefer him to not go to a faith school cos I don't even believe they should exist.
All schools should be equal imo.

The trouble is, as you have pointed out, that once people have got their kid sorted out with a decent school, they don't really want to think about what they had to do to acheive that, and they don't want to think about their neaighbours kids who may not have been so lucky, or the next years reception/high school class.

This is a massive and growing crisis and has to be acknowledged as such, otherwise nothing will change.

"But your comments criticising "the parent who whinges about it but can't be bothered to get up on a Sunday morning" or saying the efforts of non-faithful parents attending church are more commendable"

Where does that leave the children of non-religious parents attending church services for the sole purpose of accessing a church school?

Would those of you who've done it tell your children to lie about their faith (or lack of it) too?

"Would those of you who've done it tell your children to lie about their faith (or lack of it) too?" - that was the reason I couldn;t do it. Am perfectly happy to lie to a priest and fellow parishioners and even the school becasue I have lax morals and lets be honest I hardly, as a card carrying atheist, beleive god will strike me down for lying. But I draw the line at lying to my child about something so fundamental or telling him teh truth and by extension expecting him to lie to the school instead.

Like HEster I am privileged anough to be able to afford to live in an area where all of the primary schools are acceptable even the ones that people tend to be a bit sniffy about.

Now as Hester says (we live in the same borough) secondary schools are anther matter and if a Catholic secondary school gets teh go ahead when there is totally inadequate provision particularly for boys as it is, I swear I will lie down in front of the bulldozers to stop it happening I feel so strongly.

Good for you Kewcumber.

And let's not forget that the main issue here is the injustice of state faith schools being allowed to legally discriminate agains children in the community. I still don't call hypocrits those parents who make a mockery of a ridiculous stale and backward system.

the laugh of it is in our local faith school which has always been very much in demand - right in the middle of a wealthy area, pretty much entry was only by being a sibling or a member of a local congregation and well enough known by the vicar to sign you in - was under subscribed this year - a combination of far fewer siblings and a bit of a parent/head teacher falling out so people who put them second place on their selections and haven't been to a christian church in their lives (my friend is Japanese!) were being offered places.

Interesting how it doesn't matter that half the year don't even make any pretence at being a practicing christian this year and apparently its just fine . Shouldn't the church be putting their hands in their pockets by funding the shortfall in council funding and keeping it a predominantly christian intake?

I haven't read the whole thread but agree with the OP wholeheartedly.

We're none believers but have sent our DS to the local catholic school. Not because I want him to be brought up in the catholic faith, I don't, but nor do I particularly care if he is. Religion is, or should be, a matter of personal choice, not forced upon a child by adults.

The relevant factor was sending him to a school within his local community, where his friends and neighbours attend, where he can walk to school safely as he gets older.

We're not short of good schools within our authority, this school isn't even the best, but it's the closest. I could've applied to one of the better schools further away, but then he'd have no friends nearby and we'd have to drive everyday.

These schools are being funded by general taxation, it is wrong that they can exclude children from the local community purely on the grounds of their parents beliefs.

Nutella agree that non beleivers facilitate faith schools no end. I'm pretty sure the faith schools themselves are more than aware of that as well.

It's common that schools are asked to take on an extra class just for that year to accomodate the overspill. I had no idea that faith schools didn't have to participate in this.

Not a great system.

giveitago, faith schools (just like non-faith ones) do have to participate in this - ie they are asked if they can/will take on another class but can refuse (just like non-faith ones). Bishop Gilpin did take on an extra class but only for this year. They said they wouldn't continue with three forms so it's just one bumper year. Just like non-faith schools do too.

Whether faith schools or their admission policies are right or wrong is a whole debate in itself. But I must admit I don't like the inference here (at least in the OP) that just because a school is a Christian one that it has to ever-expand to accommodate all children regardless of the needs of the children it already serves.

stillstanding no, of course not. My rant is more to do with the fact that I know what was said at the meeting when bp decided not to continue with a bulge class, and it was basically 'fear of losing their community feel' when the reality is that bp takes children who live far away just because their parents attend church, and the local children cannot get in. What sort of community is that??? That was my rant. Someone mentioned here the mentality of 'not in my backyard' and that was very much the essence of what the oposing parents (overwhelming majority) put forward at the time.

Nutella, I admit I took your OP to be more about the Christian thing and being angry about them for not expanding but can understand what you are saying about community. I would feel just as angry as you if my child couldn't get into his local school and feel for you.

Having said that, I can also understand the arguments about not expanding a school because of its community school. I have no idea what was said at the meeting and don't want to try to second guess why the BG parents voted as they did but I guesss the church-attenders must live quite close to be going to the church next door so are still part of the (admittedly slightly wider) community albeit they live further away from the school than you? Community doesn't just depend on geography (within reason obviously) and I imagine the church-goers feel that they are part of a community too, ie the church community, and would like their children to go to school with other children who are part of that community. For me personally, "community feel" is also a lot to do with keeping a school small and manageable, personal even so that my children feel part of it and aren't lost. To me (and I accept that others with different experiences would disagree), a 3 form school is a very big school. Even with two forms and 60 children a form you aren't likely to get to know that many of them. I really don't want to start trying to defend BG's parents as I don't know enough about it but I do think that there is another perspective and it doesn't make anyone a "bad Christian".

Febreezeyourjeans, I agree that they do seem to be a lot of faith schools in the area. Not sure where you live but presumably you couldn't get into Dundonald, Wimbledon Chase or Garfield? (Garfield pretty close to Priory so I would have hoped you could have got into that ... desperate times if not ... ) As a matter of interest (and sorry for the hijack but we are trying to work what to do ourselves so grateful for the help) but which independent school did you end up at, and would you recommend it?

The non-faithful who do go to church to get a place are hypocrites

Surely they're only hypocrites if they're telling other people not to do the same?

The hypocrites are the politicians who told us we should all be anti-selection etc and then sent their own kids to selective/ private schools, saying 'we had to do what was best for our child'.

That really is the very worst kind of hypocrisy

Who could blame mere mortals for doing the same?

Wubbly's post is of interest to me. My ds is at his nearest school which is a community one. Bloody hell, I have up my job to put him in the nursery school attached to it so he could finally be in his community and we got into the school for reception (we're the nearest family to the school so it was pretty much given). The benefits to him have been great - we go to the local park and he sees local children from his local school, ditto the supermarket. It's made him feel settled.

We have no non selective for secondary in our area so all that will go out of the window. To me community means your local community - not faith groups.

I think the increase of faith schools is on the increase and I'm disturbed that we'll be forced to baptise ds / just to get into a local school. Yet, I pay my taxes yet we may need to play a stupid game for admissions (and I've heard from many sources that you need to baptise in the first year to get your kid into catholic school) and 100% compromise my wish that ds, being from a multi religious household, get all the info and tell us if/when he's ready to be baptised (it will happen as his dd is a catholic).

This all contributes to the increasing divisiveness in our country. I'm not proud.We're going backwards. My parents didn't force me into their faiths for a school place in our area. They left it me to make my own faith choices and it didn't impact on my education one bit. How it should be.

DH is a catholic - I don't have a dd.

StillStanding I'll message you.

Giveitago, of course to you community would mean local community not faith groups but that is becauses you aren't in that community. You want your DS to see his schoolfriends in the supermarket; faithful parents want their DS to do the same in church.

I completely agree that the system is awful and I loathe the hypocrisy it breeds. On a practical level though, I genuinely don't believe it breeds divisiveness to be exposed to a bit of religion at school and think that, regardless of whether you end up baptising your DS or not, he will end up making his own faith choices anyway.

Oh but it so does breed divisiveness. I know. I'm from a very multicultural family and I'm now middle aged. Even my parents are gobsmacked at the route we're taking and they worry for ds, as do I.

He won't make his own faith choices if we have him baptised, he'll just end up being a lapsed catholic.

Even my dh (a non UK national) was very up for a kid not having any religious choices made for him when young has sinced changed his tune 18 years on. He's now very much for 'his' community which is very faith based.

The system is crap. I have no issues with people having choices in their education even it means them havig a selective education - what I have an issue is that people like myself being encouraged to change their own cultural choices and lie and play games in order for their child to get into ANY geographically local school. That's nuts and it's certainly not to be applauded in a developed society. And, on another note - where does my child gain from all the taxes I've paid.

And. stillsstanding, where does community only meaning faith identity have a place in the UK.

I don't think community is only about faith identity, giveitago- just that faith can be one of many ways of being in a community.

The system is crap. No arguments from me on that.

I'll join you in front of that bulldozer, kew. I am outraged that the tiny minority of practising Catholics are being given priority over the borough's boys (and I have daughters, so I'm not speaking out of self-interest).