Bishop Gilpin parents - And you call yourselves Christians?? (MERTON SCHOOLS)

[NutellaWithEverything]

Name changed because I need to rant about my DS not having been offered a school place and don't want to be outed. I am in Wimbledon and my nearest school in Bishop Gilpin. My DS has not been accepted to start in Reception this September coming even though it takes us three minutes to get there. Yet, they take in children from the other side of Wimbledon even though they have to drive through town to get there. And why?? Because they go to the right churches. So last November there was a request from the Council to add another Reception class but parents voted against other children from their own community benefiting from attending a good school. They felt it would be in the detriment of their school's community feel!!!!! AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS IS SELFISH, SHORT-SIGHTED, UN-GODLY AND JUST PLAIN WRONG?????????????????

I have no idea if you are a racist or not cantspell.
I just think that blaming our supposedly lax immigration policies for the lack of school places is ridiculously oversimplistic and beside the point.

Even if we are bursting at the seems with immigrants demanding education for their children, if they are going to be part of this country then their children will need school places too.

I expect Spanish people on the Costas get annoyed with all those British Ex Pats demanding school places for their kids too, but they are there, so they must be catered to.

I agree and for the record i am not against immigration per se but i do feel that it has been handled very badly. The government failed to predict the number of people who would come here and by doing so left many education depts unable to cope with the influx of children needing school places now we are left with the situation of children without places and last minute bulge classes being put into unsuitable accommodation.

cantspel - I dont think its purely the european borders in Merton either - its also South African immigration. It doesnt matter where people come from though, the council know they are going to be short and havent planned accordingly.

All schools will teach religion anyway. If that's what you want for DCs then you have that already. The need for faith schools has to be about teaching that other beliefs are wrong and your faith is right doesn't it.

How much of the week do you need to do that? if only say an hour a week then you could do it in church/sunday school and then everyone would be happy. If more than an hour what parts of their normal education do you sacrifice to make time for it?

The misson statement for my sons RC secondary

The Governors aim to offer a Catholic education. The ethos of this school is:

?Our school exists to give witness to the way of life preached by Christ and taught by the

Catholic Church?

The Governors ask all parents applying for a place here to respect this ethos and its
importance to the school community. Nevertheless, the school fully respects the beliefs of
parents and children from all denominations and faith backgrounds. Students at
............. are taught respect and tolerance for others and there is provision in the
religious education programme for learning about different faiths.

.................. Catholic High School was established to serve the Catholic community in the ................... Deanery. Our feeder schools are:

No where does it say or teach that other beliefs are wrong and that it is your own bias that makes you think that they do.

"No where does it say or teach that other beliefs are wrong"

So nowhere are children given the message that Catholicism is the one true faith?

If you teach your children that the only god who exists is the one you worship then you are letting them know that those who practice other faiths are deluded.

When we got ds4's preschool aplce through we had to sign a form agreeing to support the Christian ethos of the school and basically, not question it

This is the ONLY catchment school, sign or sod off basically

Grrrr

Of couse i want my children to be taught that catholicism is the one true faith. I would hardly be a catholic if i didn't but you can still believe your faith is the one true faith and respect others faith.

No you dont teach that others are deluded. You teach that faith is a matter of free choice and some choose to follow a different one. It is called learning respect.

For the record, there has been a massive baby boom in the last ten years, mainly due to British nationals having more children.
The crisis about school places is down to:

1. Local schools closing
2. Baby boom

It has to do less with immigration, than contraception.

There is an alternative though; I raise my boys using teh multifaith, Vivekanadan path: yes I have a faith but there are many roads to the same destination and all are equally valid.

it is kindness, respect and love that are the key- not the particular method by which one chooses to express it.

And absolutely that includes those who follow a humanist or atheist path. I care far more about hoe people treat others than what variety of book they think has the message.

Religious people pay taxes towards secular schools of course, so it's not as though it only works one way.

MercurySoccer - but people of any religion and none are free to attend secular schools. Doesn't work the other way round does it?

My taxes also pay for grammar school but we live in a non grammar school area.
Taxes are like that and you pay for a lot of things you dont use.

Interesting how the pro-faith-schools people are always such shining examples of what their particular brand of superstition actually stands for - epic fails in logic or reasoning with a little dose of bigotry on top.
Maybve faith schools will be the issue that finally does get Christian crap-peddling booted out of its 'official' place in society and relegated to the same there-there-dear corner as astrology, homeopathy and the sort of people who think that Most Haunted is a documentary programme.

People of any religion and none are also free to apply to faith schools. All schools have admission criteria, whether it be distance, siblings at the school, a particular talent or putting forward a case that you fit with the ethos somehow.

It makes perfect sense that those who are in favour of faith schools and who follow the faith of that school will want to go there and will be contributing to the ethos of the school.

"Religious people pay taxes towards secular schools of course, so it's not as though it only works one way"

... which of course they have equal access to, along with everyone else.

Not so for children from non-religious backgrounds applying to faith schools.

cantspel - there's a difference between paying for things that you don't use and things that you are not permitted to use, particularly when no alternative is given to you.

Sorry to keep banging on about it, but when the ONLY school in your community is allowed to discriminate against non-Anglicans, then there is something clearly wrong.

SCGB - I'm not sure attacking religion itself really brings anything to the argument. There are many extremely religious countries (the US being the obvious example) where state-funded faith schools would be still considered completely unacceptable.

SCGB, don't you think you are bigoted towards Christianity?

OP I'm with you all the way. I love the various comments saying 'why send your child to a faith school if you aren't of that faith'? Where we live there is ONE catchment school. And it is strongly C of E. And so popular that you have to either live within a few streets away, or be a regular church-goer, to have a chance of getting in. I am beyond furious that my children might be forced to go to a school the other side of town because MY ONLY LOCAL SCHOOL is not open to all-comers and takes 'believers' from the other side of town over local children.

Believe me, if I had a choice I'd send my daughter to a non-faith local school. There isn't one. In what world is this a fair system?

"My taxes also pay for grammar school but we live in a non grammar school area.
Taxes are like that and you pay for a lot of things you dont use."

But the OP is talking about a school which is close enough for her child to access.

You'd have just as much right to feel angry if a good grammar school opened down the road from you, but you were told that their admissions policy meant that they favoured children whose parents voted Conservative.

RE: parents wanting to choose a school which supports their 'ethos' - it doesn't matter what school your child attends (apart from private) - they will all be teaching to the national curriculum, and the children will all be sitting roughly the same exams at the end of it. The main business of ANY school is to provide a secular education, and that's what Church schools spend the vast majority of their classroom time doing. And as far as values go - all schools in the UK will encourage children to to behave ethically, be tolerant of others and to be community spirited.

The only thing a child gets at a church school that they intrinsically wouldn't get at any other school is religious indoctrination, and I question how ethical it is to indoctrinate children in any system of spiritual belief before they are able to fully understand and commit to it as adults.

MercurySoccer - would you support the right of a school to express a preference for White British children? After all, many would argue that White British people have a unique culture and set of beliefs and that certainly if a school only allowed White British children the ethos of the school would be maintained via a common culture and set of shared values and experiences.

Would that be ok with you?

I only have experience of rural schools so can't comment on towns where there is potentially more choice, but if your ONLY village school is allowed to say that Catholics and Jews are less welcome than Anglicans this stinks of rank discrimination in my book.

MercurySoccer: No, I regard all religion as stupid bullshit, often socially harmful as well - the point of them is to privilege some people over others, enrich the priest/shaman class and keep the plebs in order. I can put up with people who insist there is SOmething Out there (rolls eyes) but I really can't have a lot of respect for the intellect of someone who insists that the mythical tropes of any of the big brand superstitions are actually true. I have particular isses with Christianity because of the privileged status it has and the fact that some of its buckethead followers are demanding more privilege.

YANBU OP, but are you religious? Sorry not read whole thread....what does it mean 'right sort of church'....this is just everything that's WRONG with faith schools

There is no doubt that the churches will fight very hard to keep faith schools. If they don't get them young they won't get them at all. The problem is though that parents really don't have a choice and until more people stand up and refuse to send their DCs to the local CofE school nothing will change. Parents need to demand more secular schools, if that is what they want, and start asking the government why the tax payer is funding faith schools which are actually selective schools.

It is wrong that a child can't go to their local school however there simply aren't enough parents standing up to fight. However, for now, the OP must accept the conditions of entry for that school, moaning on Mumsnet won't change it but if plenty of people start questionning and fighting for fairer rules then this situation can be changed.

Anyway everyone knows that loads of parents fake religion to get into schools so that just makes the whole system redundant in any case. Do the churches not realise this or are they hoping that people can be enticed into religion through schools?