Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to tell DD2 that her father's a bastard - WWYD?

59 replies

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 14:14

Sorry this is long but I really need some views on this. Backstory's here - in short, I've barred my ex from my house owing to his behaviour towards the girls and I.

Two months ago I told my ex-husband that whilst he's welcome to see/take the girls out etc and to phone them he's no longer welcome in my home. We have no reason to have regular contact with each other and he rarely spoke to the girls during his once-a-month, hour long unannounced visits . Plus, his appearances upset DD2 (14), who's a bright, articulate child and who's suffered enormously over recent years with EBD linked to bullying at school. So, she kind of understands everything astutely but can't deal with the emotional impact.

He was rather taken aback!. As he stood on the doorstep DD2 came out of her bedroom, shouted some extremely rude (but extremely deserved TBH) abuse at him and burst into tears, sobbing that he didn't care about her. I asked him to go and that was that.

Since then he's made no effort to initiate contact with either DD although DD1 has rung him a few times, including to ask if he'd take her for dinner for her birthday. Surprisingly he said yes so he and his DP are taking her to for a meal next weekend. To my greater surprise DD2 said to me that she too would like to be invited. I said that she would have to cut the abuse, which she accepted calmly and I prepared her with a warning that her father would probably say no. And, in his defence, I could understand that he would resent taking out a child who has screamed at him that he's a bastard and a cunt Shock BUT it's hardly surprising that she feels this way given how he's treated us all. He's an adult, he's the one who's let HER down and IMHO it's down to him to build bridges and to be the bigger person.

Now I find that there's been another conversation between DD1 and their father in which DD1 asked whether she might invite her girlfriend to the meal.

You can guess the answer - he'll take a stranger's daughter but he won't take his own 14 year old daughter. Not that he can only take one or the other, but that he won't take DD2 at all.

I want to sob and scream for poor DD2. I've told her not to worry, he's just a bastard, that WE will do something nice that evening... but how the fuck do you let one daughter and her friend swan out the door all dressed up to go out with her father when he refuses to take his other daughter? I could understand it if DD2 was much younger and the venue unsuitable, if she was going to get her turn when she is 16, if she was offered a night at their dads or a day out with him another time... I could even deal with it if he'd said that this is just a special night out for DD1 and that no-one else is invited.

But he hasn't done that. He's said he'll take an extra teenaged girl... just not his own. :(

He's driving into our village later to meet DD1 in order that he can hand this month's insulting amount of maintainence to her. Childish of him, I made it clear that he can put that through the letterbox but merely that he is not being invited in. It's not as if he'll stop to talk to DD1 or take her anywhere when he meets her.

ATM I want catch him when he turns up to rip his fucking head off because he's so thick he doesn't realise that he's causing DD2 to feel further rejected and that this will result in an escalation in her anger and distress (the consequences of which he of course doesn't have to live with!). I want to say that if he can't treat his DDs equally then he can fuck off and see neither... but realistically DD1's 16 now, that won't work and will only serve to make me the bad guy. Likewise I want to but can't just say that DD1 may go but she isn't taking her friend... but it's too late to spare DD2 so there's no point.

Of course I won't rip his head off but AIBU for saying he's an utter bastard... and what else can I say or do?

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 15/05/2011 14:26

To be honest even children need to be made to learn that actions have consequences, she abused him he doesn't want to spend time with her, surely even you can understand that.

Whilst I do not agree with the way in which he has treated his children, letting them act the same way and not have to deal with the consequences is wrong.

You should never slag your ex off to your children, ever. Whilst you do not have to make excuses for him you shouldn't slag him off.

I cannot understand why your daughter was not prepared for the rejection after she called him a cunt.

Who would want to go to dinner with someone who called them that?

MadamDeathstare · 15/05/2011 14:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhereYouLeftIt · 15/05/2011 14:31

How does DD1 feel about her father? And how does she feel about the exclusion of her little sister?

worraliberty · 15/05/2011 14:32

I don't know really. Having read the OP and the back story, it would seem there's little chance of a proper relationship between DD's and their Dad due to the amount of hatred you have inside.

He's hardly likely to want to take his daughter anywhere after being called a 'cunt' by her...why would he?

YABU for wanting to tell your daughter her Dad is a Bastard too. Perhaps if you let some of your hatred go and allow the 3 of them to get on with whatever relationship they can mange, that would be a better idea.

They're not babies anymore, they'll learn to develop some sort of relationship if you back off and keep your anger to yourself I expect.

millie30 · 15/05/2011 14:35

I disagree with Fabby. I don't think he's earned the right to flounce off in an offended many just because his daughter has called him on his useless behaviour. He sounds like he has been such a deadbeat that he ought to expect a bit of stick and be doing his best to repair the damage he has caused. I'm sure the OP has had rows and cross words with her daughter in the past, but she doesn't have the luxury of walking away and ignoring her, because she's a PARENT.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I think maybe taking her out somewhere and giving her a separate treat may be the best bet, but I can appreciate your anger and frustration at what an arse he is.

Lady1nTheRadiator · 15/05/2011 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

millie30 · 15/05/2011 14:35

manner, not many!

MumblingRagDoll · 15/05/2011 14:39

I think he sounds a twat....but the resaurant is for DD1s Birthday and she has invited her friend....DD2 swore at him and yes he is a twat but sh called him a cunt....it's not unreasonable and I dont think you can blame him too much....your ex SHOULD however organise a spcial soemthing for DD2s Birthay as ell and he should also tel her that he will do this.

Naturally you are very protective of poor DD2 ith her having so much emotional upheaval....but this is not one of those times where you can intervene to much.

ChippingIn · 15/05/2011 14:44

Val :(

I don't blame her for what she said to him either - poor kid. Yes, it lacks respect to speak to your father like that - but he's reaping what he's sown isn't he. He is her father, but he's not her Dad.

He will say, I'm sure, that he doesn't want to take her out to dinner because the last thing she said to him before was that you are a bastard, cunt etc etc HOWEVER (and it's a big bold 'however') HE should have been the bigger person, the adult, the DAD and made an effort to sort it out before now. His daughter is upset, hurting, angry, confused... and he just walks away from it :(

But after 16 years of him being a prize wanker - there's no surprise that he hasn't.

I'm sure DD1 has only asked him to take her out because she feels like he 'owes' her something and I can't say I blame her.

I think you did the right thing to tell DD2 that he is a useless bastard and that you and her will do something together.

They both deserve so much more than this complete waste of oxygen.... so it's damn lucky they have you isn't it Grin x

greenlime · 15/05/2011 14:45

She's 14, not a little kid so...you can be truthful but must not use the words "ex is a bastard". You can take examples of what has happened and say "ex made a bad choice by doing xyz" or whatever.

My personal opinion is that your ex sounds like a 6 year old girl, not being able to take a teenager shouting and swearing at him. He's a parent so he needs to suck it up and sort it out. Not make the situation worse by excluding her etc.

FabbyChic · 15/05/2011 14:46

My argument is you cannot treat a child to a day out for calling someone a cunt, that is not an appropriate word for anybody to use when a child is talking to an adult, in my mind by him allowing her to go it is saying it is okay for her to call him that, it isn't.

He is probably a cunt, but a child should not be calling a parent one. Im from the old school of thought, you can speak your mind and get your point across without resorting to swearing.

vajazzhands · 15/05/2011 14:46

When Valhalla can fuck off and stop speaking to DD then her arshole exhusband can. Parents don't get the option of not speaking to their young children. If he said no you can't go because you were very rude but I will still come to see you in a setting that isn't a "treat" that woudl be differant.

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 14:49

Millie, that's exactly how I feel... that being a parent doesn't, or at least shouldn't, give you the right to walk away and disown your child when they call you on unacceptable behaviours towards them, particularly when you have done so much to cause their feelings of rejection and hurt.

Fabby, my children are 14 and 16. I don't agree with "not slagging the absent parent off" and even if it weren't too late to change my mind I wouldn't be doing so. The man is a violent, abusive, manipulative, lying bastard and I could go so far as to say that I would be neglectful not to tell my children the truth.

But, whatever, that's how it is and I wouldn't do anything differently if I had my time again. I've no issue with you disagreeing but I find your comment "... surely even you can understand that." offensive. "Surely you can understand that" is fine, adding the word "even" just makes you appear bloody rude imho.

Yes, worral, I hate him. If I began to feel indifferent to a man who physically, financially and worst of all emotionally abused me for years and who has emotionally and financially destroyed my daughters in various ways I would be doing myself and my daughters a huge injustice.

OP posts:
beckibicker · 15/05/2011 14:50

agrees with fabby

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 14:52

Thank you Vajazz, that's exactly what I was trying to say. This isn't just my ex rejecting DD2 wrt a meal, it's a complete and overall rejection by a man who refuses to accept that she is angry and hurt because HE has made her feel that way.

And yes, there are times when I'd LOVE to just get up, walk out and keep walking... but I don't because I don't have that option, not really.

OP posts:
worraliberty · 15/05/2011 14:53

I don't even understand from the OP why she called him a cunt anyway? Confused

The Dad visiting upset the daughter, so Mum tells him he's not allowed in, he does as he's told and stands on the doorstep and then the daughter comes out of her bedroom, abuses him and says he doesn't care about her...or have I got it wrong?

FabbyChic · 15/05/2011 14:53

Sorry did not mean to be rude. My childrens father was violent, and emotionally abusive for years. He headbutted me in the street in front of my kids and broke my nose, I had to get two injunctions one after the other when I asked him to leave, and at times shouted abuse at the kids for walking in front of the tv whilst his football was on.

But I never slagged him off to them, I decided that they should make up their own minds. Just the same as when he promised them things he never came across with they made up their own minds about that too.

Different people do different things different ways.

vajazzhands · 15/05/2011 14:54

Valhalla-
You obviously can not stop the 16 year old from doing what she would like, but I think you would be smart to not allow contact between dd2 and her father. An abusive husband will be abusive to his children and since you don't want him in your anymore (understandably so) his visits can't be properly supervised. Do you trust him not to fly off the handle and do somethign stupid next time dd2 calls him a cunt? What if you hadn't been there for the last argument? DO you think it would have escalated?

Icelollycraving · 15/05/2011 14:55

Having had parents with a messy break up when I was 15 I know it really hits you hard as you are aware of more adult issues & rows than if you were smaller. Yr dd is learning a life lesson I'm afraid,who wants to take someone out when they call you that? That is not language a child should ever say to a parent,unacceptable IMO. The real crux of the matter is yr bitterness towards him,that will colour everything about yr childrens contact with him.
I'm not sticking up for him,there is 2 sides to a story & if someone came on here with a thread saying 'should I stop contact for a while with dd until dust settles as she just screamed & swore at me' I think people would see both sides.
He should maintain contact obv,but when he lets her down just give her a hug & show your strength without it becoming battle of the parents. Many men sadly walk away from dc,don't assist this happening with your own vitriol.

vajazzhands · 15/05/2011 14:56

you don't want him in your house anymore

worraliberty · 15/05/2011 14:56

Yes, worral, I hate him. If I began to feel indifferent to a man who physically, financially and worst of all emotionally abused me for years and who has emotionally and financially destroyed my daughters in various ways I would be doing myself and my daughters a huge injustice

I totally disagree. You only get one life and your are still allowing him to control yours. The past is gone, get some therapy or something if it helps but let go and start living again.

I think that's the best thing you can do for yourself and your DDs. Also, moving on and being happy is the best form of revenge.

Icelollycraving · 15/05/2011 14:57

Sorry if that sounded harsh,just touched a nerve.

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 14:58

Thank you Fabby, apology more than accepted. It just came over as personal, that remark. :)

I feel for you, knowing that we probably have similar experiences in common. :(

I personally felt that I was buggered if on top of all that I was going to be blamed by my DDs for their dad not being there or for him not bothering with them... I needed them to know WHY he wasn't part of our lives and that it was HIS choice not to see them, HIS choice not to provide for them and HIS choice not to even speak to them for years, not mine. I'm still glad I did that.

OP posts:
Lovecat · 15/05/2011 14:58

:( Val

I'm in a bit of a raw place at the moment re. Father/Daughter relationships so this may not come out right, but I echo what some others have said - he's the adult in this relationship, if he's being called a cunt and a bastard (which I never had the courage to do to my father for fear of his rages - he still lived with us and I was too scared of the consequences, no matter how much I thought it), perhaps he should stop and think about WHY and WHAT he's done to merit a 14 year old girl thinking/saying such things.

Not that I think he will, because men like that, imvho, don't change and expect everyone else to dance to their tune no matter how appallingly they behave. Good on DD2 for not taking that shit. However, if he's that sort of man, then he's too weak (and I would say that to her, tbh) to be adult about it and put his child beyond his hurt feelings. It's a failing on his part, not hers. Would she hear that?

I'm actually a little surprised that DD1 is not appearing (from the info) to be supporting her sister against him, but that's for her to decide, I suppose....

Hope DD2 doesn't let it get to her too much :(

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 15:06

Icelolly, this is not, though, a case of stopping contact until the dust settles. It's a man who spent years not seeing his DDs then seeing them once a month for an hour whilst he talked to ME, not them, then not seeing them for more years... and now a man who won't see or meet with or communicate with DD2 at all.

Vajazz, no chance of him doing that... long story but lets just say that he wouldn't DARE. Am absolutely confident of that.

Worral... therapy? :o Please... how can I put this.... I'm sure it's right for some people but...

He's not controlling my life, he's deliberately hurting my younger daughter. I moved on years ago, I just object to his treatment of my girls.

OP posts: