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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to tell DD2 that her father's a bastard - WWYD?

59 replies

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 14:14

Sorry this is long but I really need some views on this. Backstory's here - in short, I've barred my ex from my house owing to his behaviour towards the girls and I.

Two months ago I told my ex-husband that whilst he's welcome to see/take the girls out etc and to phone them he's no longer welcome in my home. We have no reason to have regular contact with each other and he rarely spoke to the girls during his once-a-month, hour long unannounced visits . Plus, his appearances upset DD2 (14), who's a bright, articulate child and who's suffered enormously over recent years with EBD linked to bullying at school. So, she kind of understands everything astutely but can't deal with the emotional impact.

He was rather taken aback!. As he stood on the doorstep DD2 came out of her bedroom, shouted some extremely rude (but extremely deserved TBH) abuse at him and burst into tears, sobbing that he didn't care about her. I asked him to go and that was that.

Since then he's made no effort to initiate contact with either DD although DD1 has rung him a few times, including to ask if he'd take her for dinner for her birthday. Surprisingly he said yes so he and his DP are taking her to for a meal next weekend. To my greater surprise DD2 said to me that she too would like to be invited. I said that she would have to cut the abuse, which she accepted calmly and I prepared her with a warning that her father would probably say no. And, in his defence, I could understand that he would resent taking out a child who has screamed at him that he's a bastard and a cunt Shock BUT it's hardly surprising that she feels this way given how he's treated us all. He's an adult, he's the one who's let HER down and IMHO it's down to him to build bridges and to be the bigger person.

Now I find that there's been another conversation between DD1 and their father in which DD1 asked whether she might invite her girlfriend to the meal.

You can guess the answer - he'll take a stranger's daughter but he won't take his own 14 year old daughter. Not that he can only take one or the other, but that he won't take DD2 at all.

I want to sob and scream for poor DD2. I've told her not to worry, he's just a bastard, that WE will do something nice that evening... but how the fuck do you let one daughter and her friend swan out the door all dressed up to go out with her father when he refuses to take his other daughter? I could understand it if DD2 was much younger and the venue unsuitable, if she was going to get her turn when she is 16, if she was offered a night at their dads or a day out with him another time... I could even deal with it if he'd said that this is just a special night out for DD1 and that no-one else is invited.

But he hasn't done that. He's said he'll take an extra teenaged girl... just not his own. :(

He's driving into our village later to meet DD1 in order that he can hand this month's insulting amount of maintainence to her. Childish of him, I made it clear that he can put that through the letterbox but merely that he is not being invited in. It's not as if he'll stop to talk to DD1 or take her anywhere when he meets her.

ATM I want catch him when he turns up to rip his fucking head off because he's so thick he doesn't realise that he's causing DD2 to feel further rejected and that this will result in an escalation in her anger and distress (the consequences of which he of course doesn't have to live with!). I want to say that if he can't treat his DDs equally then he can fuck off and see neither... but realistically DD1's 16 now, that won't work and will only serve to make me the bad guy. Likewise I want to but can't just say that DD1 may go but she isn't taking her friend... but it's too late to spare DD2 so there's no point.

Of course I won't rip his head off but AIBU for saying he's an utter bastard... and what else can I say or do?

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 15/05/2011 15:07

Val, I think you did the right thing. He has never been there for the girls, he has never been a Dad to them - why pretend otherwise and why take the blame for them not seeing him?

Perhaphs if some posters read the thread that you linked to, they would understand why she was calling him a bastard & a cunt.

ChippingIn · 15/05/2011 15:09

Lovecat - I think DD1 just wants to get 'something' out of him - 'something' to prove she can get it or that he loves her or whatever.

Therapy - LOL - shot gun Grin

FakePlasticTrees · 15/05/2011 15:10

Look, you need to stop the maintenance going via the children, and he's paying too little - go to the CSA, why do you want to make his life easier?

elmofan · 15/05/2011 15:11

Val can i ask what EBD is please ?

worraliberty · 15/05/2011 15:11

You hate him and you feel tha becoming indifferent to him would be doing yourself a huge injustice.

I'd say he's pretty much still controlling you.

You're doing the right thing imo by showing the girls what he's like..so they get to see and understand for themselves, but of course if you're going to show them he's an arse you have to pick up the pieces when he acts like one if that makes sense?

I hate the word 'cunt' (actually hate even typing it) so that would be a definite no-no to hear it from my child for any reason. Therefore, although he is infact a cunt, I don't think her being not invited for calling him one is too unreasonable.

millie30 · 15/05/2011 15:12

I also think you did the right thing. I fail to see why you should take the blame for his lack of contact, especially when your DDs are at an age to understand. He's had 16 years to sort his priorities out and change his ways, but he sounds incapable of doing so. Why should you have to tiptoe around and not say anything negative about him after all this time just because he is the other parent? He doesn't deserve that title anyway.

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 15:13

Lovecat, the answer's simple. As Chipping said, DD1 feels her father "owes" her... not financially but in all ways. She knows that all she will ever get is the odd meal or £20 note for birthdays/Xmas - and on many years the girls hav not even had a card between them from him so as far as she is concerned she'll "take the money and smile".

She agrees that he's a bastard but is wise enough to know that if she told him so she too would be ignored and rejected and next birthday there wouldn't even be a card.

He's got form for that punishment type, he used to not send them cards if I'd pissed him off.

OP posts:
iEmbarassedMyself · 15/05/2011 15:15

I think she already knows he's a bastard, didn't she tell him so? :)
Actually, I don't think it's you that should be writing a letter - what about DD2? Would she be interested in writing him a letter? Even one that wouldn't be sent, just to get her feelings down iykwim.
Then if she does want to send it it might be the kick up the arse he needs to see exactly how his daughter feels about him.

Since she does karate, is her club/place (lost for words) open on the day of dd1's dinner? Would karate chopping help with the anger/distress she's feeling?
Evidently I am far too sleep deprived to make anything clear, sorry about that

vajazzhands · 15/05/2011 15:16

Vajazz, no chance of him doing that... long story but lets just say that he wouldn't DARE. Am absolutely confident of that.

Good :)

FabbyChic · 15/05/2011 15:18

I've read the back story, and under the circumstances you have no choice but to tell your daughters their dad is a bastard. I feel for your DD2, he seems to be only wanting to see the daughter that gives him no chat, that allows him to take the piss and get away with it.

I moved away with my children so that their dad could not interfere in their lives, was the best thing I ever done, him being 104 miles away means other than the odd phone call they never see him other than once a year.

Works for us.

Posted it on your old thread, sorry!

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 15:19

Like the idea of DD2 writing a letter, to send or not, it would be cathartic I think. Thank you.:)

OP posts:
umf · 15/05/2011 15:21

Vallhala, I think they're old enough for you to explain how you see the situation - like you've done here. Explain why you think he's acting as he is, and also why you think DD2 is behaving as she is, and just be prepared to discuss it all with her, practise guessing people's motivations, recognizing kind actions, selfish actions, childish ones... just being emotionally literate. They might disagree with you, but it's all useful discussion for them in the future dealing with this cunt man and other people.

DooinMeCleanin · 15/05/2011 15:23

You don't need to tell her. She already knows. Poor girl. But good on her for calling him on it. She sounds very strong. At the end of the day he will be one the who misses out. I know men like this who start to bitterly regret their behaviour once they realise it is too late to ever go back and change things/build bridges.

Do something special with her on your Dd1's birthday.

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 15:27

Oh goodness, umf, we have had some mighty long discussions on that front. DD2 is learning how to handle this sort of stuff at school too - she's at an independent school for severely bullied children so they're very emotionally aware and do a lot of exploring of feelings, discussing how they can be dealt with, what the DC could do better or differently next time and so on.

She still struggles though and then I see the effects in terms of emotional and behavioural responses... I have to pick up the sodding pieces of ex's spite and rejection of her.

OP posts:
Vallhala · 15/05/2011 15:42

Something else has just dawned on me... this is classic ex-husband behaviour when I have pissed him off, just as the not sending the girls so much as an Xmas card between them is. He did the same with maintainance when I wouldn't take him back - he ensured that the girls got none for years and years. Every time they have not been sent a birthday/Xmas card has coincided with me pissing him off.

Why didn't it occur to me before?

OP posts:
Tuppence2 · 15/05/2011 15:59

your dd sounds exactly like me when I was younger. (parents divorced when I was 6mths, dad visited very b'day/xmas with £20 and a card til I was 14, but would sit and talk to my mum while I went off and played in my room, mum tried to encourage him to interact with me, but never happend and visits lasted about an hour, he avoided work due to "sick" to avoid paying maintenance)
I definitely agree with her writing a letter to get everything out, whether she sends it or not, she may feel better for getting everything down on paper, and you can always talk it through with her? I've lost count of the letters I've written but never sent to my dad, mainly because I didn't want him to know how much he actually upset and hurt me.

If he is adamant that she can't go to her sister's b'day meal, then why not take her out yourself or do something just you 2? I know it's not the same, but it still gives her something to look forward to, with the parent who gives a damn about her feelings.
I wouldn't advise you calling their dad to them, because I'm sure they already know exactly what type of man he is. My mum never once called my dad, encouraged to to call him, etc, (even though he was a total twat to her) and it gave me major respect to my mum, as she let me find out for myself what he was like, and was always there when he upset me.

It's a shit situation for you though, as someone is hurting your baby, and it's made even worse by the fact that it is the other person who is supposed to love, care and protect them, just like you do.

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 16:10

Shall definitely be taking DD2 out on Saturday and doing something with her... not as a reward for abusive language but as compensation for having a cunt for a father. :o

OP posts:
springydaffs · 15/05/2011 16:32

Hear hear Valhalla.

I so very very wish I had been able to tell my kids that their father was a bastard and a cunt but instead I felt compelled to follow the perceived wisdom that you don't diss the father...

...when I wish somebody had spelt it out to me about my own father, instead of leaving me to swim in a confusing funk for god knows how many years re that he behaved appallingly and no-one batted an eyelid, instead everyone (my mother) put on a calm front. Total headfuck. makes me MAD just typing it Angry

I was honest with my kids but used euphemisms like 'sick', 'ill', 'poorly' but at least I named it and it was an open discussion and they knew I was angry about his behaviour towards us and therefore them. I would much rather have called him a bastard - straight to the point and TRUE.

Just had my own revelation: the correlation between having a dad who was a cunt and marrying a cunt - wouldn't be at all surprised if it was because it wasn't openly talked about when I was growing up - it wasn't until I left my bastard H that I realised I'd followed a pattern.

neuroticmumof3 · 15/05/2011 16:44

abusive men often appear to favour one child over another, it's just another tactic to cause pain, distress and gain control. dd2 swearing at him just gives him a convenient excuse to put a potential rift between the dc and to upset you. he doesn't really care about his children so it doesn't matter to him if one of them is upset.

Lucyinthepie · 15/05/2011 16:50

I don't think you've helped the situation much, but can understand why you feel this way.
Put it this way, it's DD1's birthday, not DD2's. Why shouldn't she ask to have a friend with her? Why is she expected to want her sister to go? Isn't that a bit like giving a birthday present to siblings when it isn't their birthday.
Why isn't your maintenance money being paid over in a more detached way? By direct debit or via CSA? Having him drop it through the letter box seems a way of forcing him to keep coming round.

hairylights · 15/05/2011 17:00

I agree with Fabby and Liberty.

I think YABU to call him a bastard to your daughter - no matter how much of a bastard he actually is, as their mother (and you did choose to have children with him) you should not, on principle, slag him off to them.

Children work out very quickly when one of their parents (or both) are bastards for themselves and don't need to be embroiled in their parents' issues with each other.

I in no way condone his behaviour either.

Vallhala · 15/05/2011 17:00

CSA are useless and despite tribunals failed me for years and years. As soon as I mention them the children will get nothing. Although I've no desire to give my ex my bank details AFAIAC I'm far from "forcing him to keep coming round", he can send money by post, by cheque, PO, get a friend to drop it round... he CHOOSES to do it the way he does.

WRT whose birthday it is, Lucy, generally I'd quite agreed - we don't do "treat one child on the other's birthday" thing in this house, it's not about that and DD1 is not "expected" to want her sister to go. It's about the fact that not only has her father told DD2 that he will take another persons DD but not her, his own child, he's also completely unwilling to so much as telephone his child... something which has been standard long BEFORE she was abusive to him and one of the reasons WHY she is so.

OP posts:
Vallhala · 15/05/2011 17:03

Pointless arguing the "you should not slag your ex off to the DC" case with me hairylights. :) I completely and utterly disagree with you and wild horses won't change my mind on that.

You speak of not doing so "on principle"... if my ex had principles, then I might adopt some. :)

OP posts:
hairylights · 15/05/2011 17:09

If that's the case, then perhaps 'AIBU' is not the place for this thread - it might fit better in 'Lone Parents'.

Miggsie · 15/05/2011 17:18

She has realised her dad is a git...that's tough for a child, to realise that, that their parent is not just a flawed human being, but a twerp that they don't really like. She will really need to discuss it with you, you can help her come to terms with recognising that someone you sort of assume likes you and looks out for you is a selfish sod. you realised it a while ago, now she has.

He has to face that his child, whom he probably thought would worship and adore him unquestioningly, has spotted he's a git. That isn't your problem. He will cope with it in his totally crap way.

Be frank with your daughter, she is probably feeling really bad...after all it's not easy when you discover your parent is awful, the stately homes thread bears testament to that.

So, do discuss his behaviour...it will be cathartic for both of you.

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