Stupid f*cking car people!

[stretch]

Not strictly an aibu,

DH bought a trim for the car 3 weeks ago, noticed thursday it was broken, (the clip had broken). He only uses the car about once a week.

Went to Vauxhall today to get a refund/replacement (with receipt) was fobbed off and told wait until monday when the manager is in and he would have to buy a new part while the other was sent away for 'testing' . Double

Went back a few minutes later after talking with me and me looking up Sale of Goods Act and was told "don't start quoting the manager with 'legal stuff' as it riles him and makes him annoyed and they have their side too and it is a grey area"

WTF?! Quoting 'legal stuff' riles him?? O.k. then.

So what can he do?
And..AIBU for being pissed off?

make sure you know the name of the person who made such a ridiculous remark and mention the comments they made when you ring the manager on Monday.. don't fly straight into the legal stuff but make sure you know your rights and under exactly what grounds you want a refund / replacement before you have the conversation.. not enough detail in your post but sounds like it is either not fit for purpose (in that it does not stay on the vehicle) or not reasonably durable (as it broke so quickly after fitting).. I'm sure the manager will be more than reasonable but if not then mention the legal term for your reasons.. and if that still doesn't work then be prepared to either walk away or escalate to the company's head office..

Thanks.

I'm not sure what it would come under, the man said it was probably accidental damage, but there are no marks/damage and it is always parked on the drive so no passers-by. I think the clip holding it on was faulty, so not fit for purpose?

yes, not fit for purpose.

(or just faulty would be okay)

Thank you both.

My dad sells parts for a big commercial company and we have just spoken to him and he says it is different for car parts, it doesn't apply to vehicle parts, it's not the same as buying from Asda etc....???

That's not right is it? Although I'm loathe to start an argument with my dad!

no, he's talking out of his arse.

All goods that are sold have to be up to use.

If the clip has broken so soon after buying it, it is faulty, and therefore not suitable for sale.

The Sale of Goods act includes everything.
I'll see if I can find a proper link for you.

this link is about a carp part

and a bit about hte sale of goods act

Sale of Goods Act applies. If the Parts Manager is being a tosser ring the Dealership ahead and ask for the name of the Dealer Principal. Thank the person on the line and say goodbye.

Ring back later that day and say in a confident, breezy tone, "May I speak to [first name, first name again and then surname of Dealer Principal*] please? It's stretch returning his call".

*As in, "May I speak to John, John Smith please?"

That should be enough to fool the receptionist into thinking that you know the DP and get you put through, if not to him then at least to his PA. If he's not available, just say you'll call back.

Then tell him what you've told us - start calm and polite and if it fails tell him that you'll be referring to Trading Standards. Next step is to do just that and CC correspondance to the Dealer Principal and Vauxhall UK... but this shouldn't be necessary. :)

(I was a service manager to the motor trade and before that worked in marketing and learned there a few tricks on how to get to talk to my desired target ).

thank you for the 'fishy' part link, lol!

Yes, I thought he was talking out of his arse, but I can't really say that to my dad (he is right about everything!)

I will try that Val, have to be monday now though, the managers go home at 12 and lol at 'target'!

Ok, update..

I have just rang and spoke to the guy and he said we have 2 options:

1. Buy a new part, they'll send it away for testing and if the part is faulty they'll refund, if not that's another £40 wasted.
2. Bring the car in, they'll have a look and test it there and then and if it is 'accidental' damage (eg our fault) then we will have to pay for the part and labour

He was completely patronising,I pulled him up about the 'rile' bit and he said he was just wanting to discuss it like adults without bringing the sale of goods act into it! I asked him if he didn't think the law was adult enough

What to do??

DH is a partsman for Vauxhall and it is in large part down to the partsman/manager's discretion AFAIK when it comes down to it. If the part was ordered in especially then there are surcharges, etc... but if the part is faulty they have to re-order.

I have certainly never heard of a part of such small value being sent off for testing and suspect that this is not what will actually happen.

Which dealer is it out of interest?

DH is always much more willing to go the extra mile for people who are pleasant to deal with and shouting will almost never get you better service, but if the part is faulty then that is irrelevant anyway. Also, going to the general manager will not necessarily help. I would instead politely mention that you will be forced to take the matter up with Vx Customer Services.

HTH

Thank for responding.

The part wasn't ordered in especially, it is just a trim for the side of the car. Vauxhall are saying it MAY be a manufacturing problem, but they are not willing to give a refund without checking it thoroughly first. There are no scratches or marks on it and 2 people have already had a look at it and 1 said it was faulty, but they were parts salesman, not service.

The dealer is Drive Vauxhall in Leicester.

I do not see how they can tell, even with removing it, that it was accidental damage? They are saying it could be that he overtightened it, but the other fixing is fine. Plus, there were no instructions with the part, you just have to fix it on.

I am always pleasant to people, I hate being patronised though.

I have rang CAG and he said to write a letter if they are refusing to refund. Also that it is down to the seller to prove/disprove the part is faulty, not the other way round.

Why is it down to the manager's discretion? Surely it is law, not a whim?

I have just found this:

"if something proves to be faulty within the first six months from when you buy it, the law assumes it was faulty at the date of purchase and the onus will be on the trader to show that actually you were at fault, for example, by dropping or failing to properly maintain the item." from Which?

Does that mean they have to refund? Then they will test? What happens if they decide it was us at fault?

Arrgghh!

Sorry

exactly.

they won't find you at fault.

Refunds in general are down to manager/partsman's discretion, although obv in this case if the part is faulty then they have a legal obligation to give you a refund or replace the part.

Did you order the part through the service dept? If so, then the fact that the partman has said it's faulty should be enough for them surely - they are the experts when it comes to parts, not service.

My suspicion is that as the part was fitted 3 weeks ago (I think you said that in your original post??) you have unfortuantely got an uncooperative Vx dealer, and they are going to make your life difficult as proving/disproving is going to be difficult, although I understand the obligation is with them to do this.

I would definitely give Vx cust services a call - although all dealers are franchises, they have an obligation to uphold Vx's reputation. Have just reread your post above, have you spoken with them already?

Drive are a huge nationwide company, so it might be worth seeing if there is a complaints dept based at their HQ? Not sure about this, only know that they are v big company.

TBH, I don't really see why they are disputing over such a small amount of money. They obv don't value your custom, so don't go to them in future! Sorry you are having such a hard time with this, looks like Drive are NOT to be recommended.

Ooh, seeing your new post above has made me remember that ALL parts have a 12 month warranty on them anyway, also, as you have said above re the 6 month period, you really should try talking to them again, or take it higher within Drive.

I really don't understand why they're being such arses.

Speak directly to Vx Customer & Aftersales Assistance Centre on 08450 902 044.

I worked for a Mercedes Dealership for 24 years and a customer contacting MBUK because they were not satisfied with a Dealer's actions is quite a big deal as the Dealer is expected to represent the Marque to a high standard. A customer complaint sets in motion a procedure of timed responses by the Dealer which is overseen by, and must be acceptable, to MBUK. I would be surprised if Vx were much different.

Bunch of chancers. I complained once about a sub-standard car repair to a Mercedes dealer in Perth, in writing. I am a solicitor and quoted the relevant legislation. One of their manager types phoned me and tried to tell me "there is a special branch of law called motor trade law that this doesn't apply to". Sued them in a small claim and won. They are now out of business.

Impossible trying to get a test car booked to try too as all their salesmen have them to drive around in themselves all weekend.

Well, that was a big 'ol waste of time!

Thank you for the number, I rang and he basically said that dealership are correct and the law may say we can have a refund, but they say we have to get it tested first!!?? He said it was up to the dealership, not customer services. Some customer service!!

They say that if DH fitted it (which he did) he could have damaged it himself, that is the reason they are giving. Highly unlikely as I said above.

I have a template letter and I am thinking of escalating further. Partly because we really cannot afford to take the chance of them billing us for the labour, but also because I am now pissed off!

so they're trying to override the law????

Exactly!

Only problem is now, how far do we take it?

They are so sure they are in the right. And DH is not very confident. He's worried we'll end up £hundreds out of pocket.

If the item is faulty and not fit for purpose, then they have to refund. Definitely escalate. Speak to trading standards and get their take on it.

They are not unreasonable in requiring evidence that the goods are faulty. In this case, its possible that your DP could have damaged it when he put it on the car. OTOH it could be a form of evasion by them, thinking you will just pay up and buy another one. They are the ones running the business, which is dependent on goodwill to some extent, so unless this is an especially common problem (in which case they should manufacture them more robustly) or your DP is unusually suspicious, they would be most expedient simply to replace.

I'd just sue them as a small claim. Do it online. You don't have to be a a lawyer - just describe whats happened. They nearly always settle out of court, and its less hassle than writing multiple letters. Of course you're going to then have to add on your expenses and costs. Remember too that under SOGA 79 you have a choice of claiming against anyone in the chain of supply, such as the manufacturer, as well.

nijinsky - they are, really - it's retailer's/supplier's responsibility to prove that it's not a fault but the customer's neglect.
basically, the law sides with the consumer. (innocent until proven guilty)

I see where you are coming from nickelbabe but technically the onus of proof rests on the claimant in most civil cases. ie it is up to the claimant to provide evidence that the goods are faulty rather than the defender to prove that they are not. The standard of proof in civil cases is beyond reasonable doubt and innocence and guilt do not come into it, as in criminal cases. It is a matter of evidence, but also in practical terms, of business expediency.

My guess is that they get people who try to get replacements and then sell the originals on ebay. But this doesn't mean that faults cannot ever be faulty. Why on earth don't they simply replace the part with a new one, and take back the old one for testing/whatever?