to be upset by what the paediatrician said?

[frakyouveryverymuch]

I took DS (3 weeks) to the paediatrician today because I suspect he has silent reflux. I know I'm not a doctor but I also know his levels of distress aren't normal for babies and he's got most reflux symptoms bar the projectile vomiting.

Apparently because he is gaining weight he can't have reflux. TBH I'm sceptical about that because I think he's sucking for comfort, and therefore getting milk, because he's refusing a dummy - but why would he have silicone when he can have a mummy-dummy! When I said we'd tried a dummy (against my preferences but if it helps, it helps) and that he was feeding frequently but only taking small amounts she told me that I'm causing his reflux by 'giving in' to frequent feeds, I have to wait at least 2,5 hours between feeds and 'if he cries, he cries', and I have to make him get used to a dummy.

Now I'm not one to whip out a boob when DS squeaks. I check to seee whether he's hot/cold/needs changing/etc unless it's been ages since the last feed and he can go up to 4 hours at night without waking for a feed but during the afternoon evening he can cluster feed for ages and daytime feeds are more like every 2 hours.

She might have a point but AIBU to be upset by the way she said it? Please be honest because if I am BU or oversensitive we'll keep her as our paed - she comes recommended by friends (who have quite different parenting styles admittedly) - but if I'm not I want to find a new one before DS's next scheduleed checkup.

Yes Fanjo, I'm sure the paediatrician was taught at medical school that you should never give in to a newborn, instead leave them to cry until the next feed is scheduled.

Well they said that for a reason, not because they read the GF book

I'm already block feeding to prevent him getting too much foremilk. That was one of the first things I did, along with eliminating the possibility of trapped wind as much as possible etc

I've worked with refluxy babies - as in diagnosed and on meds - and babies without reflux. DS is definitely more like than not bar the upchucking:

He won't lie flat - screams blue murder within 5 minutes even if previously sleeping soundly but will lie on his side or be transferred from one person's chest to the next
He arches his back shortly after each feed and screams in pain
He hiccups almost constantly
His poo smells a bit vinegary
When he upchucks it's impressive!

His feeding pattern IMO is normal, at 3 weeks I dont expect 2,5 hours between feeds but she seems to think I'm constantly feeding and have caused his symptoms because I'm not waiting 2,5 hours. I accept she might be right and I'll see if spacing the feeds helps but I didn't like her manner so I wondered whether I was being oversensitive or she was dismissive and borderline rude telling me to leave my newborn to cry.

YANBU Frak. You're experienced enough to know the difference between normal newborn behaviour and what's not. Trust your gut instinct and get a second opinion.

I looked after a baby who I suspected had silent reflux and took her to the GP as her parents were away abroad and the GP poo, poo'd me and said she was fine and was probably just wind. Mum Boss came back a week later and lasted one day before she'd headed off to a private Doctor in London who diagnosed silent reflux and baby was put on ranitidine and a special formula.

Did you suggest to the Paediatrician that it was reflux? I know a lot of Doctors get irritated by patients self diagnosing. Google has a lot to answer for!

Oh, another one apart from the dummy suggestion - the only place my DD would sleep, apart from on top of me, was in an Amby Hammock. I think the angle and softness suited her better.

Haven't read all the replies but just to say my son had reflux, the non silent kind (i.e the vomit everywhere kind ) and he weighed 15 pounds at 6 weeks old - yes that's not a typo. He basically followed his 98th centile till he was nearly 2 and now he's levelled out.

So the weight gain thing is a complete myth, and even more stupid if he's not actually vomiting.

Even a bog standard GP would surely give you some infant gaviscon to try and if the symptoms ease then that's almost a diagnosis in its own right! Sounds like your paed knows sod all about reflux...

Just read your most recent post OP - I'm no doctor but I too am convinced he has reflux!

Sounds to me like he has reflux.

And the reason people dismiss medical opinion is because it is so often wrong. GPs have to deal with such a wide range of problems and ages of patients. Many trained 20, 30, 40 years ago. Many have views on which patients are being neurotic, drug seeking, exaggerating etc which colour their interpretation of clinical facts. The GP training is actually not that long given the range of conditions they may have to spot.

Some are brilliant. Some are not. The experience of specialists are often more weighty than generalists. I think paediatricians are somewhat specialised but not as much as gastro-paediatricians. And an internet full of mothers with experience of silent reflux babies is about as specialised as it comes. :)

My advice - get some infant gaviscon, see if it helps. If it helps go back to the paed and as him/her to explain the results. Ask what the diagnostic criteria for slient reflux are. Ask why this diagnosis isn't being considered as an option despite the symptom overlap. Then walk out and get a better doctor who actually listens to you.

Its well known now in paediatrics that the parent's instincts, particularly the mothers, are a very important factor to consider when diagnosing. Instincts run deep and are right more often than not.

Good luck!

My DS was 'lucky' in that his Reflux was diagnosed at less than a week old while still in hospital, even the SCBU nurse said he was going to be a 'right little one' as he screamed so much and thought he was being a 'naughty baby'

I think the fact almost all parents of Reflux babies have to fight for a diagnosis and are poo poo-ed says it all really

Gosh, It really confuses why we mothers want medical diagnosis for everything!

"He won't lie flat - screams blue murder within 5 minutes even if previously sleeping soundly but will lie on his side or be transferred from one person's chest to the next
He arches his back shortly after each feed and screams in pain
He hiccups almost constantly
His poo smells a bit vinegary
When he upchucks it's impressive!"

I think you are looking for symptoms, he is only 3 weeks old! I hate to say this but BABIES CRY sometimes they cry none stop! sometimes they cry for so loud the neighbors give you funny looks! All of what you listed above sounds like normal infant behavior. Poo will smell all kinds of weird! You can trust me on that one vinegary, fishy, like coconuts! (even tho he's never even so much as looked at a fish or a coconut) I am saying this from a good place. I lived with my mum for the first 5 months of my sons live and everything he did was because of Colic! me and DH spent a fortune on all kinds of potions that did nothing. It wasn't until we moved out that I realized how much time a wasted worrying.

It's so hard for the first few months especially if you are breast feeding but you are doing more harm than good to yourself focusing on this. I promise. you, this will pass. Sorry if I seem insensitive but it just wish someone would had shaken all that nonsense out of me earlier it would of saved me from allot of stress and grief.

OMG LadyGolden are you for real?

"It's so hard for the first few months especially if you are breastfeeding"

And goodness help any mother who wants to get medical help for a baby she believes is in pain. Her baby is not just crying as in unsettled, wants comforting, woke up in a funny mood. The baby is "screaming in pain".

Yes there are neurotic mothers. But there are also more babies suffering needless pain. Seeking medical advice until your concerns are addressed is absolutely the right thing to do. If you're in the neurotic minority (minority IMHO) then when 3 or 4 doctors have told you not to worry perhaps you stop worrying.

"then when 3 or 4 doctors have told you not to worry perhaps you stop worrying."

This seems to be a growing trend here! I wasn't trying to be cruel and I did expect backlash! "Screaming in pain" I'm sorry but thats what I thought my son was doing too. It turns out he was in no pain what so ever. He is perfectly healthy and always was (thank god) The reason so many mothers are being told that their babies do not have a silent reflux is because THEY DON'T. I'm sorry but if you look at all the facts and have actually seen a baby with "gastroesophageal reflux disease" you would agree. The amount of weight these babies lose is heart breaking and they suffer with awful heart and chest problems. This also affects them later in life! I'm saying this because I thought my son had the same thing when he was 4 weeks old! He didn't and trust me they way he used to scream would have broken your hearts. He sounded like he had been scalded. This used to happen every single day! then when he was about three months it stopped! My mum called it Colic, I called it silent reflux! but it was nither. Some babies go through this and it was the hardest time of my life but putting a name to it didn't help

Haven't read whole thread but DD had silent reflux and has never dropped below 98th centile for weight (born on 75th). GP also dismissed me so I took DD to a and e during a particularly bad crying, back arching, frothing at the mouth and silent gagging (looked like she was choking and couldn't breathe) episode. Diagnosed immediatly! DD threw up once in her entire life...

I didn't go down the gaviscon route as I found the BEST thing I could do was feed little and often and keep her upright for at least 1/2 an hour after feeds. She gradually lost all refluc symptoms and I haven't thought about it for about 3 months (she's 7 months now).

My son had reflux, vomited lots and still put on weight. When I finally saw the Dr about it because he had started to scream and scream all night he immediately prescribed Gaviscon. Worked a treat, screaming subsided and he went back to sleeping through the night and I stopped smelling like gone off milk! Tell them you want to try Gaviscon just to see if it helps.

sorry LadyGolden but I know 2 babies personally with silent reflux and lots more online - many prem babies have it. One good friend's baby had to be resuscitated twice because of it. Many don't lose weight - which as someone else mentioned is more correlated with throwing up rather than the silent non-vomiting reflux. Babies often grow out of it with no further problems, and don't have life long problems. It depends upon the severity of the reflux and how quickly the sphincter at the top of the stomach strengthens. Also as babies learn to sit up they spend less time horizontal and this can all but cure the problem, especially if they do not lie down to sleep immediately after eating.

There are other reasons for crying and i'm sorry your son was so distressed. It must have been upsetting for you, particularly if your mother was advising you she thought there was a problem. Maybe it wasn't silent reflux for your baby - but perhaps it was another reason. Wind? Teething? being overwhelmed or scared by sensory input?

I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the idea that some babies just cry that piercing, pain sounding cry for no reason. Maybe it's hard to find the reason, but I'm convinced there is one in most cases.

Get a second opinion!!!!

just catching up with the thread ... ds needed lactose free milk, gaviscon, domperidone and rannitadine (sp?) to control his reflux.... trying gaviscon alone might not work for all cases.

Something confuses me.

You said she told you because he's gaining weight he can't have reflux. Yet she also says you're causing his reflux by 'giving in to him'.

So how are you causing something she's told you he doesn't have?!

Sounds like reflux. I have 4 month old twins, both with reflux. One has ordinary reflux and vomits CONSTANTLY and is on:
Enfamil
Ranitidine
Domperidone
Gaviscon

and the other has ghastly silent reflux, and is on all of the above plus Omeprazole, and his formula is neocate. I BF my first child and he didn't have any reflux symptoms so I knew something was very wrong with the way that the twins fed. Thank goodness my health visitor spotted it early in my vomitey twin. We were referred to a paediatrician with an interest in paediatric gastoenterology and he prescribed stuff that made an enormous difference. He also diagnosed my other twin's silent reflux. He was arching so much during feeds I thought he was having a seizure.
However, despite being a bit prem they BOTH gained weight really well and our paed said he wanted to keep an eye in it as reflux babies can end up a lot bigger than normal as they either feed cos they've thrown loads up, or keep on feeding as the silent reflux hurts like mad and drinking cools it.

For your own and your child's sake, see another paediatrician, the one you have now sounds like a fecking idiot. And reflux can be diagnosed very early - one of my babies was showing symptoms before we'd even left hospital.

Trinaluce, there are still some people that think that reflux is little more than overfeeding, hence I suspect the "giving in to him" bollicks. Honestly OP, I'm furious onntour behalf. I've nearly lost my fucking mind with this reflux business. We're only now turning a corner and it's still really, really hard as they vomit tons, have loads of gas, and generally don't feed easily. It's affected the entire family cos it's so stressful dealing with it all, the drugs, the prescriptions, and associated aggravation, like the dick of a GP who had a fit at our formula bill and suggested I dilute it further than the instructions say to save money.
I really hope you get sorted v soon.

Ladygolden, you're talking out of your bum. Colic and reflux are not the same at all, and if the baby responds to reflux meds then it wasn't colic! And colic may well be every day. Reflux IS EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY, EVERY FEED, CONSTANTLY. My older boy had colic - he'd pull his knees up and squeal terribly. Reflux makes babies stretch out, arch in a REALLY upsetting, distressed way, gasp, scream, weep and cough up foam and mucus, amongst other symptoms. Colic is a walk in the park in comparison.

Lady golden you are talking bollocks. I am a doctor and have a ds who had silent reflux and op your lo definitely sounds like they have it.
Not all doctors are good, some unfortunately have bad days. I would seek another paed if you are able as you need a doc you feel us listening to and understanding you.
Good luck, I remember it as a tough time.

My DS had silent reflux and was on Infant Gaviscon from a couple of weeks old. He was 50th centile when born and went up to 91st by week 8. I started bf but sometimes when he vomited there was blood and I needed to know if it was coming from him or me so switched to formula for reflux babies.

We have visited the paediatrician many times due reflux and related complications and DS had a barium swallow to confirm diagnosis and rule out intestinal problems. One thing we were told is that it is more common in boys and that reflux or silent reflux babies are typically at opposite ends of the scale in terms of weight.

I found that a dummy was invaluable, but had to try several different shapes along the way. The other thing that I did was allow DS to sleep on his tummy which made him more comfortable and meant that he could be put down to sleep without the arching and crying. It goes against SIDS guidelines, I wouldn't recommend doing this without discussing with a HV or Paediatrician first. Also raising the head end of the moses basket/cot and keeping them upright for 30 mins after feeds helps too.

Bear in mind that babies with reflux can be prone to chest infections as the fluid can go into the lungs, look out for coughing, funny noises when breathing, increased breathing rate or laboured breathing.

Good luck, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I got locked in the hospital with my daughter. She screamed so much she was coming out in red blotches all over. I took her to hospital as i didnt know what was wrong. She was subject to a lumber puncture for meningitis. Whilst waiting for the results she was given a ultra and full body scan to see if she had any injuries, results came back negative and diagnosis - gastric reflux with a perscription for gaviscon after 2 nights in hospital and asked twice if there was anything i wanted to tell them.

fifi25 - wow! glad you got a prescription but just goes to show how serious it is, and how many doctors assume it's not reflux and only go there as a last resort.