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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Lack of respect and punishment

69 replies

knittedbreast · 12/05/2011 11:15

This is following on from another thread but the details and situation is different so hence the new thread.

i know lots of you argue that boundaries and consistancy are the way to get good behaviour from children but what if you have been trying and nothing changes?

my son is 5 and has no respect for me at all. if i tell him off he dousnt even apologise, he ignores me, if i ask why he did something he dousnt look at me or even bother to reply and then smirks at me. he pulls faces behind my back.

i just dont know what to do anymore its getting to the stage where i really dont like him very much. of course i love him and he wonderful but his personality is very hard to like at the moment.

I dont hit him, ive smacked him maybe twice but that was to save him from putting his hand in the flame on the oven.

what do you do to install respect? it breaks my heart he thinks so little of me.

im not sure what ive done wrong but i just want to hand him over and run away for a week!

any ideas?

Thank you

OP posts:
TheVisitor · 12/05/2011 12:52

Agree with the use of please. It teaches manners and if you use please and thank you, your child will naturally imitate.

knittedbreast · 12/05/2011 12:53

i dont know, i was never given options. i just did as i was told. i didnt have to decide to do x i was just told you are doing x.

there is alot of back ground to why my son and i have such a relationship. but for some reason the laptop charger isnt charging the laptop and and its about to die. i will see if the pc upstairs is working.

thank you all for your advice, i need to be stronger and stop taking it persoanlly. its just so hard when i love him so much, it hard to understand why hed act like this.

OP posts:
Chandon · 12/05/2011 12:59

How does your partner treat you? Is he the one who decides things? is he very respectful to you? How your partner treats you is a BIG factor in how a son treats you (in good and bad ways).

BertieBotts · 12/05/2011 13:00

He's acting like this because he's 5! :) He just needs to be shown a different way to behave - you will get there - it just needs love and consistency. If you want to elaborate on the backstory later, it might help, I don't know.

My approach in very simplistic form is stop approaching it as a battle of wills and try to find a way that you are both happy with, and it might be as simple as letting him think he has some level of control. I know not all others agree though.

valiumredhead · 12/05/2011 13:00

There you go OP, you were told what to do ( not pleaded with and therefore given an option ) you knew the rules.

Children feel safer when they know the boundaries, he acts like this because you allow him to.

valiumredhead · 12/05/2011 13:04

Looking back I spent ds's early years acting like a cross between Mary Poppins and a Sergant (sp?) Major but it's paid off because by the time they approach their teens you NEED them to listen and know you mean business.

JackyJax · 12/05/2011 13:06

Oh poor you. I feel for you. It can be very difficult when you get yourself locked into a downward spiral. I think there have been some very good suggestions here re positive reinforcement.

I'm a teacher of 10 years and have worked with difficult students for whome star charts, etc haven't worked in the past. To be honest, they didn't work because they weren't administered properly. Sorry if this sounds critical, it's not meant to.

If I was you, I'd target three behaviours only and make a chart for those eg putting shoes on in morning, putting dishes in sink in evening, reading 2 pages of a reading book to me. The behaviours need to be very specific eg getting ready for school isn't a good target because it's got so many parts to it.

I'd talk about what I expected at various times in the morning/evening so child was aware of what was coming up.

If child doesn't achieve target, I'd just say, unemotionally, 'Oh that's a shame. Still I'm sure you'll do better tomorrow.'

If child does achieve target,praise masssively and talk about his achievement in front of other people.

Sit with child before starting star chart explaining what it's all about. Make sure you put enough preparation into it. Type up the star chart, make it colourful, laminate it if you can. Maybe go to shop and choose stickers with child. Then talk him through it. Put it somewhere noticeable in the house. Be very upbeat about it. Decide in advance what reward he'll get on eg Saturday for eg 10 stickers (don't expect perfection). Try not make the reward non monetary.

Separately from this set up a marble jar. Every time you see him being nice in the house, tell him what you liked and put a marble in a see through jar eg I liked the way you gave your sister that pen. That was good sharing. you are a good sharer.
When the see through jar is full, he gets to choose a special day out with you. he'll be in charge of choosing from a limited option eg day at a special park, day at the zoo, day jumping from trees, etc.
The secret with this is to try to catch him being good. At first this might be hard but once you get into the habit it will be easy. Eg I liked the way you didn't make a fuss when I said we had run out of cereal and you had to have toast for breakfast. That shows that you are a big boy.

Also, when he's being nice and not smirking, I'd talk about the effect of the smirking- not in a victim like way. Eg do you know what a smirk is? (he might say no if he's being a smart arse). This is what a smirk is (demonstrate). When you do that how do you think I feel? Well, I feel.....

I might let the odd smirk go (wanting to pick battles as people have said) but I wouldn't put up with a general attitude of disprespect.

Ok so in summary, here's a possible action plan:
set up three behaviours chart
set up marble jar
talk with him about smirking

focus only on three behaviours and work on catching him being good.
you may then find smirking, horrid attitude decreases. This is usually what happens. Kids like being praised if it's done in a meaningful way.

You do need to invest some time and energy to change this behaviour but it can be done. If you put the hard yards in now, life will become much easier in the long term.

Wishing you lots of strength.
Jacky
once behaviours are established start setting zero tolerance for smirking, etc

JackyJax · 12/05/2011 13:07

'whom'- sorry didn't proof read. Forgive other errors too!

valiumredhead · 12/05/2011 13:08

Great post jackyjax :)

MarinaIvy · 12/05/2011 13:18

Knitted: I agree with Visitor re: being tough in selected battles, but am intrigued by your mention that it's mainly when he's asked to do things he doesn't want to.

Perhaps he doesn't get that everybody has to? Can you stage manage (or merely highlight) a few occasions in the coming weeks when you're doing something you don't want to do, and casually/simply remark on it.

I strongly recommend it be something neutral: nothing he can take as an accusation: "Oh, bother, I was hoping to put my feet up, but looks like I've got to go get some milk instead" or similar. Don't make any one instance a big deal, but start filling his reality with the concept that none of us can do whatever we like all the time.

And, in more non-confrontational conversations, talk about responsibilities, not just his and yours which he'll be getting to know, but everybody's: the police have responsibilities that go with their powers, royalty have responsibilities, not just lots of money and houses, as well as a general message that living in a civilised society means we have to remember ours.

All honed to his age, of course.

Good luck! Let us know how you get on!

niceguy2 · 12/05/2011 13:46

Jaxyjax has made a great post I think.

Basically teaching young kids to behave is a very simple principle. Reward good behaviour, punish the bad.

So the star charts reward the good, timeouts, removing toys and dare i say it a good old fashioned rollocking is the punishment.

The targetting behaviour's to fix is spot on. If you go in and make wholesale changes, he will just rebel.

What I'd also add is that when you decide to punish, make sure you win. EVERYTIME. Your son needs to know your word is the law. I've lost count of the times I've said something like "Eat that carrot and then you can leave..." they refuse and we've spent an hour at the dinner table in a standoff over a piece of carrot! Inside I'm thinking "FFS, i wish i'd never said it...its a sodding carrot" but outside I know if I let him off this time, next time he'll push and push.

Punishments need to be something he doesn't like. There's no point in taking a toy off him if he then goes and plays with another. What's he really lost? Nothing. So instead I'd stop him from playing with toys full stop. Obviously for a set period.

And also I'd say don't shy away from a good old fashioned hair dryer treatment rollocking if he deserves it. I've seen parents who's kids have smacked them and all they get is "Oh x, don't do that...it's naughty". My kids know if they try to smack me or their mum, it'll be the last thing they do.

So in my opinion, it's reward good, punish bad, be 100% consistent with standards, mean what you say (even if you regret it) and always ALWAYS win the battle. Even if it means you are late!

aldiwhore · 12/05/2011 14:37

Can't really add much that hasn't been said, consistency is so important, once you've decided how you're going to deal with certain behaviours (and you can have limitless options, though the simpler the better) you have to stick to your guns.

I should add that my changes certainly didn't work overnight, or in the first week, or month, all in all it took about 3 months to tackle the things that I found wholly unacceptable AND most of the things that just wound me up... I'm not perfect, neither or my kids are, we're a 'spirited bunch' none of us reacting well to authority, so we've found our own groove that works for us.

Good luck OP, pick your battles wisely and you'll win the 'war'.

squeakytoy · 12/05/2011 14:46

As far as the shouting goes, bugger the "house rules".... if an adult has to raise their voice to a child, so be it. My parents mantra was "do as I say, not as I do". It works.

LineRunner · 12/05/2011 14:48

I've found that literally getting a breath a fresh air with a mardy child helps. "This is a picnic, oh dear son. There is a bus. Here is the beach. Look at the waves. I'm going to run with the gulls and then we'll sit down and eat and talk." It just breaks the monotony and can make the child look at you in a different light.

gkys · 12/05/2011 15:08

reading your OP hes five, he will be collecting all sorts from his friends, in reception or year one.

here are few things that work in our madhouse home.

call him to you look directly at him.

tell him what he doing is not on

give him a warning: if this happens again I will........

let him carry on

second time:

call him to you

ask him what you said would happen if he did xxx again

carry out the threat

when time out or whatever finished talk to him

end with a hug.

you have to show him that you love him but his behaviour is not on, also you have to carry out what you threaten to do. i made the mistake of empty threats with mine

mine are great throwers: throw once you get it back, throw twice you lose it for ten mins, throw it thrice its mine until the next day. it soon sinks in

think maybe he is pushing his luck to see where the boundaries are. it gets better Wink

niceguy2 · 12/05/2011 16:48

The only thing I'd change with gkys's post is be careful with the hug thing. Sometimes it will help to use it to comfort your child if he's been distraught at being punished.

What you do need to be careful of though is that it doesn't become a reward. Ie. misbehave badly, sit yout timeout out then you get a hug from mum!

Kid's don't always learn the lessons we intend them to :)

Not saying don't hug them....just be careful that's all.

aldiwhore · 12/05/2011 17:46

Liking the throwing thrice rule!!

Also agree re: overhugging... my youngest melts my heart and is a little so-and-so, clever and knows which buttons to press (at 3!! ARGH) I used to hug him if he looked upset, or sorry, or sad or or ororororor.... he soon used it to his advantage.

We now hug like normal, but if we've had a spat, then there are no hugs until everything is once again calm and the whole naughty business is over. Its paid dividends, even though I still feel like a prize bitch.

BertieBotts · 12/05/2011 19:14

Sorry, but a hug is not a reward! If your child is misbehaving just to get a hug, you're doing something wrong.

menopausemum · 12/05/2011 20:00

I agree mostly with the above and would add: make punishments quick and immediate. Don't threaten with 'you wont' be doing xxx tomorrow' make it very much 'now' such as 'right, all your toys away, you can come and walk the dog with me now' so that you are taking away something he wants and replacing it with something you want to do and which you can enforce. Don't try this with something like eating his tea 'cos you can't enforce it. As thesmallclanger says, pick your battles, you can only change one thing at a time so choose the worst thing and concentrate on that. When he won't come downstairs I would ask once, then repeat and say 'I'll count to 3' start counting and on three go up to him and carry him down, even if he then decides to comply. If you've got to 3 then he suffers the consequences. Remember you are the adult, you are in charge.

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