Lack of respect and punishment

[knittedbreast]

This is following on from another thread but the details and situation is different so hence the new thread.

i know lots of you argue that boundaries and consistancy are the way to get good behaviour from children but what if you have been trying and nothing changes?

my son is 5 and has no respect for me at all. if i tell him off he dousnt even apologise, he ignores me, if i ask why he did something he dousnt look at me or even bother to reply and then smirks at me. he pulls faces behind my back.

i just dont know what to do anymore its getting to the stage where i really dont like him very much. of course i love him and he wonderful but his personality is very hard to like at the moment.

I dont hit him, ive smacked him maybe twice but that was to save him from putting his hand in the flame on the oven.

what do you do to install respect? it breaks my heart he thinks so little of me.

im not sure what ive done wrong but i just want to hand him over and run away for a week!

any ideas?

Thank you

Loads of kids don't want to read at night - try the mornings instead when they aren't tired or as TheVisitor suggested, read to him.

my father told him off, said that was very unkind and he didnt ever want to hear him use that word again.

at school they moved him away explained it was unkind, told us and we told him off and then i think we took a toy away. i spoke to him about how the other child would have felt.

thing is it seems to go in one ear and out of the other.

we tried the house rules, they used to work but then he goes house rule mummy you arent allowed to shout at me, you are being horrible.

little shite.

in the eves we have a thing where i read to him and then he reads to me or vice versa. he can read quite well, he just dousnt like having to put in the effort.

i think thats the issue

Well he has a point if you are shouting and the house rules say no shouting It shows there is lack of consistency.

i know that, but if i try talking to him he falls on the floor smirking, refuses to sit up then pretends to cry. lolling around refusing to listen to me.

anyone want to come to my house and watch him for a few days.

also i dont scream at him, but i do use my cross voice. he tells me to stop using my cross face. after the pretned crying he lolls all over me tekking me he loves me and why am i being horible to him.

he also lies, about stupid things. kicking his sister, eating all my choc, just random stupid lies sometimes, things that mean nothing.

If he's saying that you shouldn't be shouting, then maybe you shouldn't! He's trying to get everyone to follow the rules and if you're shouting, then you're getting out of control. I'll give you an example of consequences we have used here as a family:

If my child had called another adult a loser, he would be removed from the room and put into time out. After time out had been done, he would be asked to apologise. If a refusal came, then it would be straight back to time out.

Refusing to do something as they're busy playing - after warnings, the item would be removed and put out of reach.

Tongue pulling and face making - back turned on him and completely ignored.

It does appear to me (and I may be wrong) that you try something for a bit, then let it lapse. Although it seems difficult to stick to things at the time, in the long run it is far, far easier on everyone in the household.

It seems as if there is a lot of telling off, without much else happening. I could be wrong. Something else that struck me was that you take his face in his hands when he starts to cry because you're insisting on something, to see if he's "really crying" or not. Well, you know the answer to that without looking, so maybe stop engaging with that.

Have you tried giving him a prior warning, e.g. "DS, we're going out soon, so I need you to finish what you are doing or put it away for later, because I'll need you to put your shoes on in a minute." Then get him to acknowledge that he's heard and understood, and how long he will be (although how long might be a bit old for him yet)

Maybe you could try say 15-20 minutes before you need to go, go up to him, engage with him about what he is doing "Ooh that's a lovely robot, well done!" etc, and then after 5-10 minutes start negotiating e.g. "We need to go out soon. Could you just finish this arm bit, and then we can leave your robot here safely for you to carry on later. I'm going to go downstairs now, but I want you to come down when you've finished the arm, okay? Is there anything I can do to help you get ready?" If he kicks off at the prospect of having to stop what he's doing, then that's the time to say "I know it's frustrating to have to stop what you are doing, but we need to do this now, and you can build your robot again later."

This basically shows that you appreciate whatever he is doing is important to him, and also that you're asking him for help and co-operation but you are willing to give it as well. It might not make a difference, but it's worth a try?

Also if the 15-20 minute warning isn't enough, if you know you are going to be doing certain things that day, could you give him a quick rundown/itinerary at say breakfast time, even including the obvious things like school and mealtimes, mainly to put it in some form of context/structure which he can understand, assuming he can't tell the time yet. Don't forget to include the times which he is allowed to play or do what he wants. Five is still very young in terms of time perception.

thevisitor thats exactly what happens, i try something it dousnt work we try something else. nothings the same. it started like this because time out stopped working he would just sit there happily until the time had finished and then go and play and do it again moments later.

also if i ask him stop doing x, he ignores me, right in front of me, i ask again, he continues ignorming me, i ask again and then he turns round and says crossly hwile crying "but i am stopping" even though he blatantly wasnt.

its the little things that i cant really tell him off for that drive me mad, i cant comminucate them to him, its just his attitude towards me and now others.

i know that, but if i try talking to him he falls on the floor smirking, refuses to sit up then pretends to cry. lolling around refusing to listen to me

So? You VERY calmly but VERY firmly say " If you continue to do that and not listen to me there will be no TV for the rest of the day"

He will probably be a smart arse and say " I don't care!"

And you reply "Well that's your choice"

Go and do something else, ignore him.

i try something it dousnt work we try something else. nothings the same

It doesn't work because you keep changing the rules.

Decide on the rules and stick to them.

I agree bertie, if you say to him in 20 mins hel ask how long is twenty mins. i show him on his watch but then he forgets. he seems to forget the things he wants to if you know what i mean, things that make him life easier of get him whats he wants.

i want to know where this behaviour comes from

if you do punish him, he never seems bothered like it dousnt matter. it dousnt feel like its working if there is no reaction from him.

Sorry x-posted with a lot there.

It sounds like you are taking all of this very personally. I know it's hard, but try to see his behaviour as just the way he does things because he is five and he doesn't know a better way to do things or get his emotions across, and not as some kind of master plan to wind you up. Even if it is a master plan to wind you up, if you can manage to not take it personally, then you're ignoring the wind-up tactics as well.

Use a kitchen timer instead of a watch.

he is getting a really large amount of attention for poor behaviour. sit him down (ignore any smirks etc) and clearly/calmly explain to him that you have new rules. everything must be done by the count of three or will end in time out in a boring room even if it means being late for school.

take on a calm fair but firm air of authority.
get his attention and give directions give close up and with the expectation they will be followed.
don't walk off and do anything else - calmly stand and wait for a 20 seconds.
if he hasn't started to follow the direction count slowly to three.
when you have finished counting simply/quietly/calmly put him into a boring room and ignore him for 5 mins.
if he starts to kicks off then you simply stand firm and calm. you are touching a nerve and he is trying to pull rank on your new authority.
don't back down and do not let him out of the room till he is quiet.
if he refuses to appologise simply put him back in the boring room for 10 mins and let him paddy.
if he needs longer in time out then give it to him but when he comes out deal with the issue quickly then move on and change the subject.

give masses of good attention for good behaviour and also play with him more. try and have fun together/make things a game and don't seem really needy with him. what rewards do you have for good behaviour? do you do charts?

I'm not saying say in 20 mins though, I'm saying go up, engage for 5-10 mins, then say "You can finish X, then you need to get your shoes on". That's more clear cut to him than saying in 5 mins or whatever. It just takes 15-20 mins of your time, so you have top be ready to go yourself earlier. But the idea is you put in a little time and it reduces the probable 15 mins you might spend arguing and fake-crying and trying to get him to come down.

I agree it sounds as if you try something for a bit then let it lapse, and I can sympathise I have done it myself in the past.
One thing you do find with discipline like house rules is that they work for a while as it is a bit of a game and quite fun they do start to find it a bit boring and they appear to stop working for a little while because they want to see who is going to cave in and give up first you or them.

BertiBotts gives a lot of good advice as well. My DS1 is 5 and I have to give him a time warning "you can do it for 5/10 whatever minutes then we need to do XYZ"
I do find at 3 more than 10 minutes is too much though they forget and more time is plenty enough time for them to become engaged with something else. I do agree though that a run down of that days itinery including time to play etc is good as well as your expectations of him at certain times eg. "We need to go to the shops at 3pm so I will give you a shout 10 minutes before to finish what you are doing then I need you to get your shoes on"

I also use a reward scheme like the one they use in dd and ds1 school. A friend of mine always struggles with keeping her dc's interested in their reward system but I feel it is because she expects too much of them. she wants them, for example to fill their marble jar before they get a reward but from my own experience they need to get a reward fairly quickly to see any benefit of sticking to it so I usually stagger rewards, 3 stars gets a magazine, 9 stars gets soemthing slightly bigger and work up to a big treat.

i also only give evening screen time if mine are dressed by 7.30 in the morning and have behaved really well throughout the day.

he gets gold stars, a bike ride, trip to the park. his friend round etc...

my partner has said that i plead wih him rather than be authorative, i asked my mum and she said a good hard slap round the face would do him good!

That's why you have to consistently do the same thing. Believe me, he won't have been happy in time out, he just wanted you to think that he wasn't bothered. If he'd been returned again and again, he would get the message that what he's doing is unacceptable.

NEVER plead! Ask the first time, yes, tell the second time, yes, after that then consequences.

they are very clever 5 year olds. i was a different child to him, i didnt even think about being naughty. i was totally obedient!

And why were you obedient OP?

There are countless options between "pleading" (which I agree gets you nowhere as they learn that you don't really mean what you say/you'll say it loads of times before you really mean it so it doesn't matter) and slapping him though! :)

This is quite good in the avoiding pleading area. Basic principle is say, remind, make it happen.

Oh although I disagree with not saying "please". I don't see why saying "please" invalidates it. I try to use it every time, I just think it's respectful.