Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think some of you are a leeeetle bit precious about SATS?

28 replies

emkana · 09/05/2011 22:39

in Germany children write regular tests with grades from 1to 6being given from about the age of eight -and by regular I mean 8 per subject (maths and german at least). They know that the grades will determine which type of school they will be allowed to enter aged ten. While I think the German education system is far from ideal I think that some on here are a bit too precious assessments in schools.aibu?

OP posts:
Original poster
emkana · 09/05/2011 22:39

8per subject per year that is.

OP posts:
MrsRhettButler · 09/05/2011 22:40

i do sort of agree with you op, i mean whats the harm?

troisgarcons · 09/05/2011 22:42

That is why some areas still have the 11+ - to streamline out the brighter kids and give them a superior education by right - often better than the private/public schools.

cue the lefties and equality for all ..... the 11+ allows far greater social mobility the the comprehensive system which debased the education system to the lowest common denominator

bubblecoral · 09/05/2011 22:44

Children here are often being tested regularly, and there nearly always seems to be end of year tests. The problem with SAT's is that they test the school as much as the child, which means the teachers pile on the pressure.

My ds is already working at the top level of SAT's and quite enjoys some of the tests, and even he thinks his teachers are laying it on too thick with the amount of practice that they have to do.

bubbleymummy · 09/05/2011 22:44

I don't really see the harm in tests either. I couldn't see the problem with the 11+ either. Maybe it depends on how well you performed on exams yourself or whether or not they bothered you? I loved exams

BehindLockNumberNine · 09/05/2011 22:50

I don't see the issue with SATS either. I grew up in The Netherlands and Germany. In the Netherlands we had tests in each subject at the end of each topic. So anywhere between 6-8 tests per subject per year. Right from Year 1. These test scores were added up at the end of the year and if your score was not high enough you did not progress to the next year with the rest of the class.
By the time I got to secondary school I was very laid back about exams.

FreudianSlipOnACrown · 09/05/2011 22:52

'tisnt the exams people are annoyed about though, it's the fact that SOME (not all!) schools use a massive chunk of year 6 to study for them, and fail to teach anything else, cancel extra curricular activities and put horrendous amounts of pressure on children. Not the actual exams - it's the fact that half a year is devoted to them!

hatwoman · 09/05/2011 22:58

it's also the fact that they are Not for the children. they exist so that future parents can use test results to size up a school and so that schools can look good. So I do very much resent time my children spend on something that doesn;t benefit them when they should be enjoying their primary education.

mybrainsthinkingfuckyou · 09/05/2011 23:01

hi emkana

what's your views on vera-3 tests taking place in Germany tomorrow? these appear to be the equivalent of sats but taken in year 3...and without any build-up, advance notice or heavy preparation.

how significant are they for future decisions re which school the kids will end u in in your opinion?

duckypoo · 09/05/2011 23:24

I can't see the problem really, I do think no more than half a term should be given to "revising", a poster on another thread made the point that it's good to consolidate learning at the end of primary.

Exams and exam pressure is a fact of life, I don't think 10 or 11 is too young to experience this. I bet most schools are not full on really. IME it's mostly pushy parents who pile on exam pressure, had a couple of people in my A-Level class seriously distraught at only getting a C in an end of year test that didn't even count Hmm.

FannyNil · 09/05/2011 23:30

The problem is not so much the tests, although I think children in England and Wales are over-tested, but the way in which some schools and some parents transmit their anxiety etc to the children. In some schools the matter is handled calmly and sensitively so that children are not afraid. In others it is dealt with in a manner that would not disgrace A levels. Also some parents are totally OTT and seem to think it is the end of the world if their child doesn't achieve high scores from the start.

Waits to be stuck on top of bonfire...

RoadArt · 09/05/2011 23:31

My kids dont do Sats so that isnt an issue, but I do think it is important that children are assessed so that they can be taught at a level appropriate to their understanding. It doesnt matter what the level is, as long as it is at a level that is comfortable but also challenging for each child.

Sats results are quite often the only kind of feedback parents get and is a national marker that is a general benchmark for parents to be able to equate to.

My kids do lots of tests at school but we dont ever get told their results. They also never know when they are having them so there is no parental pressure for them to revise anything. The teachers want to know what they actually do know and understand.

HecateQueenOfTheNight · 10/05/2011 07:49

When you teach children how to pass tests instead of educating them - it's a problem. That's what it seems like the system is now. Coach them to pass the tests. Get the good scores. Reflect well on the school.

And actual education? actual knowledge? Well, seems to take a back seat as far as I can see.

I'd be quite happy with a system that tested knowledge. That's good. let you see how well the children are being educated. That's probably what it was intended to be.

But it is now a ten tonne nail.

babybythesea · 10/05/2011 07:56

Also, the way the results are discussed are an issue. Sentences like 'This percentage of schools had x number of children who failed to reach the national average - these schools are failing their students.'

Which is a nonsense, because to get an average, assuming some children perform above average, some children have to perform below average - that is what gives you the average. If you want targets then fine, but if you are going to discuss averages which is what most of the talk in the media seems to be about, then you have to accept that some children will fall below it. This is what then causes the schools to put pressure on their kids.

kc0rns1lk · 10/05/2011 07:59

SATS narrow the curriculum.

Barbeasty · 10/05/2011 09:53

SATs test the basic curriculum which every child should be taught. Schools which teach purely to the tests narrow the curriculum.

I got really annoyed watching the programme last year about improving maths teaching at Barton Hill primary school. The teachers an experts moaned that they had to stop teaching the children fun maths so that they could teach for the SATs, and that the SATs stopped the children leaving school with basic maths skills. Rubbish. If the children had been taught maths properly from reception rather than starting in year 6 then there wouldn't have been a problem.

Whilst I am one if those strange people who enjoy tests (I get very stressed about getting results back though) I think it's a vital skill that people need to learn. Testing doesn't stop at 16 because you've left school.

DameShirleyKnot · 10/05/2011 10:01

My son is doing the SATS this week, and although he is bright he is very lazy at school. (Oh and he also sat his 11plus earlier in the academic year)

Anyway, I went in to see his teacher a couple of weeks before the Easter break and he actually said "If we can't get his scores up in the next few weeks it's going to be too late for him"

What the actual fuck? He's TEN. Do fuck off.

The pressure piled on the kids of this age (only a few months before they go onto a new school) is just shit IMO.

Chil1234 · 10/05/2011 10:12

YANBU.... Judging by the variety of work that my Y6 DS has done this year, he is not being 'taught to pass a test'. They have been working on past papers this term as practice for SATS but have done a lot of other interesting things besides. The only intensive training he has had has been to improve his handwriting, which was appalling and needed fixing. No-one in his class appears to be stressed out in the slightest.

They're all heading for secondary school in September where the expectations and workload will be much greater. What's wrong with giving them a taste of examinations?

scaryteacher · 10/05/2011 11:36

As has been said lots of schools teach nothing but SATs in Year 6, which is one of the reasons why we went private as I disagree with the SATs.

What is wrong with teacher assessment? The SATs take a snapshot on a given day of three subjects. The SATs results have little bearing, if any, at secondary, and as it is not a straight continuum from primary levels to secondary levels, we spend much time in Year 7 explaining to parents that a L5 in primary does not always equate to a L5 in secondary (more like a 3/4 in most cases). The teachers will have a much better handle on what the kids are doing and how they are progressing over the year and will come out with far more accurate results than the SATs.

The children label themselves according to their KS2 SATs level and either beat themselves up about only getting a 3 therefore they can't achieve at secondary, or others use low SATs levels for needling purposes. Also, the SATs levels aren't accurate - one of my last tutor group had a L5 in science - except he could neither read nor write.

If you have to have some form of external assessment, then do it earlier, so that problems can be addressed in Year 6. Doing it in May is not going to give time to get a child up to a L3 or higher at this stage of the year is it?

kc0rns1lk · 10/05/2011 12:00

scaryteacher is right - the SATS are not an accurate reflection of a child's ability. They are a very narrow snap shot of how they have performed on a particular test

CurrySpice · 10/05/2011 12:33

It's not the SATS per se I don't like. Or testing for that matter. It's the fact that the SATS are purely for the school's benefit, not the child's. And learning by rote how to pass an exam is not, IMHO, education

valiumredhead · 10/05/2011 12:36

I completely agree curryspice

Abr1de · 10/05/2011 12:37

People say that SATs are just for the school but I understand from people at our local comprehensive that they are used to predict, and steer, pupils towards GCSE choices. And teachers use them to predict GCSE grades, which sounds a bit odd to me.

My two didn't take them as we moved by then. But every year, from year six, they have taken exams in a variety of subjects.

Chil1234 · 10/05/2011 12:39

" very narrow snap shot of how they have performed on a particular test"

I think every written exam ever devised fits that description. Doesn't invalidate them.

elphabadefiesgravity · 10/05/2011 12:40

My children are tested regularly in formal exam conditions and the results are reported to parents.

However Iam totally anti SATS and chose a private school that don;t do SATS for the rasons outlined by other posters.

I have nothing against testing - just SATS.

Swipe left for the next trending thread